14 X 12 is it becoming more popular ?

Pete D · Feb 13, 2013

I have been reading this forum most days for the last couple of years or so and wondered if the 14x12 format was becoming more popular. Reading through some of the more recent post it would appear so.
If it is........is it because more and more people are thinking it will help with their swarm control as its bigger and the bees are less likely too.
All bar 1 of mine wanted to swarm last year and although this could be for a number of reasons I put it down to the bees seeing it as success in their minds that they produced 2 colonies from one. Maybe I also have swarmy bees.......... but aren't all bees swarmy.........at some point.
Guess I am really saying that if the main reason for moving to 14x12 is to help with swarm prevention then.......it might........a bit.
Of course it maybe that its easier than brood and half or double brood or any number of reasons.
How about a poll ?
What hive type and configuration do you use ?
Some may need to vote 2 or 3 times though as many seem to run a selection.

Just a though whilst I am working away............ :sunning:

Pete D

jenkinsbrynmair · Feb 13, 2013

I found 14x12 to be more than a bit fiddly - neither fish nor fowl - I'll stick to my standard Nationals for the forseeable. If I decide to go for a larger hive I'd plump for Langstroth.
I think the reason 14x12 is popular is economy - because most people have moved up from a standard Nat. By going 14x12 you can still keep the supers (and use the deeps as supers as well if you want.
A lot depends on what kind of bees you hae as well I suppose

Walrus · Feb 13, 2013

Health warning: my opinions are based on lots of reading but only a couple of years beekeeping!

I think it depends on several factors including the type of bee, location (climate), compatibility with others etc.

I originally went for 14x12 because I thought the BB would be big enough to have just one BB and then shallow supers on top for honey. What I have found for my bees is that they could actually do with a bit more space in the BB in mid season, so maybe double brood National is a more flexible approach, especially if using Demaree as part of swarm control.

I am going to try a couple of hives with all boxes the same size (Langstroth Medium) in the current season, to see how I get on with them. My current thinking is to keep it flexible (all boxes & frames the same size) and not too heavy....but time will tell what the bees actually prefer. Brother Adam went for whopping great jumbo Dadants but they are too heavy IMO.

Regarding swarming; that's what bees do to reproduce, and no matter how big the box they will back fill with nectar to limit egg laying space as part of swarm preps (see Walt Wright's stuff)....Or leave to find a more cosy home elsewhere. To prevent overcrowding swarming you can always put more boxes on top.

Hope that helps

enrico · Feb 13, 2013

You would think that someone would have designed a frame so that if you put a super on a brood the frame fitted through both, that way no need for anything extra other than a few frames!
Or am I missing something?

Hivemaker. · Feb 13, 2013

enrico said:
You would think that someone would have designed a frame so that if you put a super on a brood the frame fitted through both, that way no need for anything extra other than a few frames!
Or am I missing something?

14X12, brood and a half, that is pretty much how it came about.
There was a time when only the extra deep frames were available,slightly deeper.

Ely · Feb 13, 2013

enrico said:
You would think that someone would have designed a frame so that if you put a super on a brood the frame fitted through both, that way no need for anything extra other than a few frames!
Or am I missing something?

How would you fit an excluder if you go to the extra bother of using one? Wouldn't your frames be petruding over the brood box when you remove supers? Not sure I understand

Trebor Edwards · Feb 13, 2013

Hi All,
Iv read your comments regarding 14X12, brood and a half, double brood,and many of you it seems are reluctant to go for it?While winter is still with us get yourselfs a book called The Rose Hive Method .I changed 3year ago and havent looked back,all of the boxes/frames are the same size and interchangerble yes the honey ones are a bit heavier but iv never heard anyone complaining about to much honey, i had a very good year in 2012.

Hivemaker. · Feb 13, 2013

Trebor Edwards said:
I changed 3year ago and havent looked back,all of the boxes/frames are the same size and interchangerble yes the honey ones are a bit heavier but iv never heard anyone complaining about to much honey, i had a very good year in 2012.

I agree with you, good to have all the same size frames, i tend to use all standard deep national boxes, never complain about the weight if they are full of honey, and faster to work than 14x12.

IGPebble · Feb 13, 2013

I'm happy using 14x12's, the more space my colonies have the stronger they are, I'm young and fit and have no problem lifting the additional weight involved.

I dislike the idea of having a brood and a half or a double because of the dangers of losing/squashing a queen during inspection.

Hivemaker. · Feb 13, 2013

IGPebble said:
I'm happy using 14x12's, the more space my colonies have the stronger they are, I'm young and fit and have no problem lifting the additional weight involved.

I dislike the idea of having a brood and a half or a double because of the dangers of losing/squashing a queen during inspection.

They have more space with double brood IGP, and less chance of squashing a queen during routine swarm checks, as no frames need to be removed.

itma · Feb 13, 2013

Yes you can make a very cursory "tipping" inspection for swarm cells with multi-brood.
And a lot of (deliberate

) queen rearing techniques involve multi-brood, and multi 14x12's gets serious... a pal to lift the other side is the easy answer.

However, most other things are easier with the big box.
I'm happy with them.

No hive type is ideal for everyone.
14x12 probably isn't ideal for those intending to "go to the heather" (or OSR).

Little John · Feb 13, 2013

Hivemaker. said:
I agree with you, good to have all the same size frames, i tend to use all standard deep national boxes, never complain about the weight if they are full of honey, and faster to work than 14x12.

That's the route I'm taking too, supers with ekes under to take DN4's on the Nationals; DN4's in the long hives with 3 x custom 6.5-frame supers over taking the same sized frames. A one frame system.

LJ

IGPebble · Feb 13, 2013

Hivemaker. said:
They have more space with double brood IGP, and less chance of squashing a queen during routine swarm checks, as no frames need to be removed.

I disagree, as you can visually see where you're putting frames down, but not where you're putting boxes down.

Each to their own though, if I find my bees are gagging for space, I'll put a deep on top, but I doubt it will ever get that crazy.

Tom Bick · Feb 13, 2013

When I made hives I found that the vast majority of new beekeepers wanted the 14x12BB and the rest and more experienced stayed with the standard BB, some of the more experienced beekeepers were converting to 14x12 but on the whole it was new beekeepers that wanted the 14x12 and if this continued it may in time be the dominant size.

I have worked one 14x12 hive alongside my standard’s for two years and it has not worked for me and I will stay with single and double standard BB.

Hivemaker. · Feb 13, 2013

IGPebble said:
I disagree, as you can visually see where you're putting frames down, but not where you're putting boxes down.

Of course you can see, there are no bees to squash, as you smoke them down and up, then lower the top box, it is not completely removed, just split, no more likely to harm bees or queens than adding more boxes.
But as you mention,each to there own,boring world if we were all the same.

Hivemaker. · Feb 13, 2013

Tom Bick said:
When I made hives I found that the vast majority of new beekeepers wanted the 14x12BB and the rest and more experienced stayed with the standard BB, some of the more experienced beekeepers were converting to 14x12 but on the whole it was new beekeepers that wanted the 14x12 and if this continued it may in time be the dominant size.

I have worked one 14x12 hive alongside my standard’s for two years and it has not worked for me and I will stay with single and double standard BB.

This is exactly the same as i find Tom, plus any commercial guys that do use nationals, prefer the standard national. For a bigger single BB i personally prefer the commercial.

Ely · Feb 13, 2013

Hivemaker. said:
This is exactly the same as i find Tom, plus any commercial guys that do use nationals, prefer the standard national. For a bigger single BB i personally prefer the commercial.

I prefer my commercial to my 14x12 brood box. The frames are a much better shape. Less prone to sagging on hot days. Shame they aren't more popular.

Tom Bick · Feb 13, 2013

Hivemaker. said:
This is exactly the same as i find Tom, plus any commercial guys that do use nationals, prefer the standard national. For a bigger single BB i personally prefer the commercial.

Thought that was the case Pete and I suspect for you a slight adjustment on boards cut from the trees for the 14x12, for me a bit of gluing was required.

thorn · Feb 13, 2013

As I understand it, the Rose Hive method envisages two brood boxes, which gives the beekeeper the same problem (or at least, I see it as a problem) of having to check twice as many frames at each and every inspection. I found that moving to 14 by 12 cut down the inspection time per hive. The more experienced beek can doubtless get through his inspections very quickly. We newbies are slow. Anything that stops us from needing to have the hive open for too long is an advantage.

Tom Bick · Feb 13, 2013

Hi thorn, one thing I have learnt with running on double brood is that you hardly ever need to inspect the lower BB only if you are concerned. The more experienced simply split the two BB’s like a hinge and if they don’t see evidence of QC’s on the bottom of the top frames then that’s the inspection over. I have done a couple of inspections like this but it takes a bit of nerve.

14 X 12 is it becoming more popular ?

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