Honey selling

[E&MBees]

It’s a simple on line form/multiple choice questions.

Do you need the certificate if you are selling honey from home?

 

[enrico]

Do you need the certificate if you are selling honey from home?

No

 

[thorn]

I am not saying he can't do it. All I am saying is THAT I WOULD NOT DO IT.
E

I agree. If it's got our label on it, it comes from our apiary. In fact, we have three apiaries, one town, one country and one edge of town. Each has its own name and label, albeit with a "family" feel.

 

[ericbeaumont]

If you keep meeting the demand your price will need to reflect that. I sale mine slightly more expensive because it is in short supply and high demand....I do it that way because its simply a lot of work for not much profit.

Good man!

 

[Newbeeneil]

I agree. If it's got our label on it, it comes from our apiary. In fact, we have three apiaries, one town, one country and one edge of town. Each has its own name and label, albeit with a "family" feel.

I have 10 apiaries and they all have individual labels! The customers love to know exactly where the honey comes from.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Good man!

I don't think I could up the price on my jars, I would like to though as Jeff said it is a lot of work.

Breeding bees seem to be more profitable.
Does anyone sell pollen??

 

[jeff33]

What's that obsession about trying to sell everything and anything, thought about selling bees by the unit? For me you should enjoy beekeeping first and foremost and if you can get it to pay for itself and get a small profit that's a bonus!
If you want to make it your bread earner I guess it takes time and investment to build up to it but I am sure those who do it will tell you more.

 

[Curly green finger's]

What's that obsession about trying to sell everything and anything, thought about selling bees by the unit? For me you should enjoy beekeeping first and foremost and if you can get it to pay for itself and get a small profit that's a bonus!
If you want to make it your bread earner I guess it takes time and investment to build up to it but I am sure those who do it will tell you more.

I've been busting my back in farming and landscaping for years. I've found a hobby that I really enjoy and want to make a business out of it.
I love beekeeping first and foremost for the pleasure jeff it has helped me through some difficult times more so recently.
When my father pasted away in December I made the decision to stop farming and eventually stop landscaping, if I hadn't of had my beekeeping I probably would of been six foot under by now.
I could talk more of the past even, lost mum to cancer when I was 18, father wasn't very supportive I went of the rails for a bit suffering with anxiety and depression.
So some things have a turn in showing there ugly head.

I know it's going to take time to build something up but I'm only 40.
I've had a landscaping business for 16 years.
So I know things aren't easy at times.

If Ive an obsession so be it it helps

 

[jeff33]

I am really sorry to hear about all this Mark, you have had some rough times to go through and I am glad beekeeping has been there to support you during these difficult times.

You are used to the vagaries of farming and beekeeping seems to be the same. A lot of of professionals seem to sell nucs, packages of bees, queens, honey as it is probably tricky to just rely on 1 element. As I said in my previous post, those who do it will be better placed to advise... Unless you are planning to be their competitor!!!

 

[Curly green finger's]

I am really sorry to hear about all this Mark, you have had some rough times to go through and I am glad beekeeping has been there to support you during these difficult times.

You are used to the vagaries of farming and beekeeping seems to be the same. A lot of of professionals seem to sell nucs, packages of bees, queens, honey as it is probably tricky to just rely on 1 element. As I said in my previous post, those who do it will be better placed to advise... Unless you are planning to be their competitor!!!

Shhhh!!!

My brother and uncle now run the farm I'm not saying there's no money in stock farming or arable but I've found something better

 

[ericbeaumont]

I don't think I could up the price on my jars, I would like to though as Jeff said it is a lot of work. Breeding bees seem to be more profitable. Does anyone sell pollen??

In North London about five years ago I started selling at what I thought was top money (£14/lb) and in that time only one person has mentioned the price: You're a bit dear. I pretended not to hear and offered her a taste; after that the comment about price was irrelevant, and that taught me a lesson: if it's good quality the money is of secondary importance.

That price now seems standard, built up by word of mouth and speaking plainly and persuasively at BKA meetings: my view is that we're all in this together and as 88% of UK honey is imported we have an opportunity (esp. post-C19 and post-Brexit) and a responsibility to support other beekeepers and sell a quality national product for a good return. Try increasing your price by a small amount regularly; it's what the food industry does, and we're part of it.

It helps to build an expectation of supply to outlets and build a customer base, and it takes time to build numbers of colonies and spend regularly on kit. Yes, it's hard work to get the jar to market and that needs investment in production and packaging: I'm told that a lot of the bigger bee farmers are content to put it in barrels and sell at £3/lb because the work and money needed to package their own is either not what they want to do, not where the profit lies, or not what they're able to do.

I've not studied the two routes of profit - barrel or jar - but at £3/lb the barrel beekeeper must run four times as many colonies as I do at £14/lb. Pretty sure that there's a flaw in that simple equation, but there must be a point where the variables determine which route to take.

As it is, I love going to market and talking to all sorts, meeting other farmers and making connections. I realised years ago (when I was a freelance illustrator for print) that working indoors alone was not good for me, so I changed to gardening and landscaping. That worked for twenty years but routine (and age) crept in and beekeeping took over.

Pollen? Yes, it's one of the lesser products but there is a demand. Most retailers buy in bulk from Eastern Europe, but hayfever sufferers always want local. Beeswax, candles (rolled are easy and the margin is good), propolis, comb honey, beekeeping experience sessions (in better times) all help to build income; honey soap sells; good packaging is essential (no more Thorne labels) and market patter will come. Bees are where money can be made so long as you have consistent good stock.

I can relate to your situation, Mark, and I applaud the fact that you're following your instinct to combine a job with inner pleasure; that way lies good work and personal contentment. Manley wrote much the same in Honey Farming: that if he'd known how much he would enjoy it, he would have started beefarming earlier in life. Though his background was in conventional farming, his heart lay with bees.

 

[enrico]

Can I just be clear here Eric. You are selling your honey at £14 for 1 lb of honey? Wow
E

 

[sipa]

If you want to make it your bread earner I guess it takes time and investment to build up to it but I am sure those who do it will tell you more.

If you want to turn beekeeping into a business, forget about it as a hobby.
Take off the rose tinted spectacles. Do a proper business plan, halve your expected return and double your expected costs. If the numbers still add up you have a chance of creating a sustainable business.
There are a lot of hidden extra costs and the capital investment is huge if you want to make anything like a decent return. circa £100,000 to get going or a very long time to buildup organically.

Don't undervalue the products you intend to sell, quality always wins over price. The real production costs per unit is huge and margins low. You should also factor in uncontrollable risks such as bad weather, disease outbreaks, thefts, personal injury etc.
Good luck.

 

[Curly green finger's]

You know folks, this is why I love this forum so much the support and honesty from fellow beeks is brilliant.
There's no other like it thanks to mark and his team of mods.
I miss hivemaker on here, I know he's a very busy man.
Cheers.

 

[MuswellMetro]

By buying in honey and relabelling you change from a "prime producer of small amounts of animal products" to a "processor"

You, therefore, fall under different requirement s of the food Act and you need a hygiene certificate and registered your premises will the local council rather than parts of the legislation that lets farmers and small holders (prime producers) sells a limited amount of eggs and milk etc at farm gate/market/local retailers

 

[MuswellMetro]

Can I just be clear here Eric. You are selling your honey at £14 for 1 lb of honey? Wow
E

recommended price by the London BKA is £1 per oz, so that is £16 per lb in central london

I cannot achieve that price in outer London suburbs but £10 per lb is the lowest i have seen honey sold at the door and shops £13 or 14 per lb

 

[pargyle]

In the world of beekeeping in the UK dominated by hobbyists with less than 20 hives the true value of home produced, local, honey is often depressed. Bees produce honey - in most years anyone with more than a couple of colonies will have many pounds of honey that they have to shift. Many people do not have access to a wider market place than their 'usual' customers and the word of mouth spread - it must be tempting and (in some cases essential) to price their honey at a level that it will sell and sell quickly. Raising prices is difficult when you are dealing with an existing customer - why do you think Supermarkets pay so much attention to KVI's (Known Value Items) ? A small increase can be very noticeable and more importantly have the perception of profiteering. It is much easier to retain an existing customer than to find a new one.

What is the answer ..? If you are going to treat your beekeeping as a business..

1. Work out properly what a jar of your honey costs to get from the bee to the customer, take into account everything - All the consumables, power, light, transport, feeding, treatments, packaging, labels, market fees, Insurance and factor in any labour costs other than your own (time spent by family or friends - even if they are not costing you anything). Exclude capital expenditure (Hives, equipment, bulk containers, vehicle purchase etc.) This will give you a true COG (Cost of Goods).

2. Factor in the cost of Queens and bees you purchase and allow for them as a cost spread over the time you expect them to be productive ... if you buy in new queens every year - it's a one off cost - against your COG. If they are productive for longer divide their cost over the period you expect to keep them. Factor in the cost of those queens that do not survive. If you raise your own this is not a cost.

3. At this stage you have almost arrived at a true cost of goods. Now comes the hard part and one that any farmer, grower or agriculturalist faces and one that in manufacturing is fixed. How much product do you expect to produce ? Of course.. it varies year to year so, perhaps, you need to take a reasonable estimate of what a reasonable colony will produce in a reasonable year and be realistic. Honey is your raw material but has no tangible cost in the scheme of things but the amount you can produce has a bearing on how many jars of your product you will have to sell.

4. When you have all this information you have the basis for a business model - if all you are seeking is to pay yourself a wage from within the profit you make decide what you need to take out and add it to your COG. Include National Insurance and Income Tax - it has to be a Gross figure.

5. Having worked out your true COG you then need to establish what you expect in anticipated sales. This has to be based on the retail sales of your finished product(s) whatever they are and in whatever mix and quantity you expect to sell

6. You now have the means to work out your Gross Profit - Sales less COG. If the figure is negative - you are losing money and will eventually run out of money - or you will have to find another source of income to support the business.

7. You have to find a sales price (or a series of sales prices if you have a spectrum of products to sell) that generate sufficient sales to ensure that you have enough NETT PROFIT to maintain and grow the business.

Unfortunately, the majority of hobby beekeepers probably do not run their beekeeping as a business and I suspect that they absorb costs that should be factored in - at best breaking even and at worst - subsidising their hobby from other sources of income. Hence, the extraordinarily low prices at which some beekeepers sell their honey.

Even if you do this exercise properly (and I accept that the above is a back of the fag packet explanation - there are many variables and this is a one page, simplistic view) you will also need to consider where the point is that you can no longer maintain the number of colonies you need to run to produce the quantity of sales you need to grow the business. At some point your labour and travel and administrative costs are going to dramatically increase when you cannot manage on your own ... there are only so many hours in the day and what was a pleasurable hobby will become hard work beyond the norm and a chore. You will need help in the season and your profit will dramatically reduce. Growing the business beyond your own ability brings a whole set of new costs - more equipment, more machines, bigger premises, more vehicles, professional fees and setting aside some capital for those years when, for any reason, your honey crop fails to meet your expectations.

Is it any wonder that some wag once said 'In order to make a small fortune from beekeeping start with a large one'. I would add to this the other, oft ignored adage, SALES Vanity, PROFIT sanity.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

....and we must understand

There's London

And then there's the real world

 

[ericbeaumont]

....and we must understand
There's London
And then there's the real world

Noooo!

If the UK was a pond, London beekeepers are throwing into that pond a large pebble; the ripples will eventually spread everywhere.
PS: ten years ago local London honey was selling at about £3-4/lb.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Noooo!

If the UK was a pond, London

............. would be the corner where all the ducks sh!t in