Which Bees

[johnnie1uk]

I have been wondering is it possible to have a hive in Spain with an English strain of bee, would they be happy, cope with the different climate etc. or should I only opt for Iberian bees.

 

[REDWOOD]

use local bees, I don't think your fellow beekeepers would be happy with you introducing UK genes into their bees

 

[Stiffy]

I have been wondering is it possible to have a hive in Spain with an English strain of bee, would they be happy, cope with the different climate etc. or should I only opt for Iberian bees.

You mention 'a' hive, singular, I doubt that a single hive would adversly impact on bees in the local area and despite many claims I have yet to hear of evidence that introducing a well behaved strain has any effect on local strains. As most bees in this country are a mix of strains, they will cope admirably I am sure.
Seems a long way to transport and may be easier to get locally though?
S

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[oliver90owner]

English strain of bee

How, more precisely, would you define the above? Large numbers of queens are imported into the UK each year so there are not many strains which are truly English. Lots of queens in use at present in the UK are imports from Cyprus or Greece. Tell us more.

 

[Madge]

... I have yet to hear of evidence that introducing a well behaved strain has any effect on local strains. ...

What about the 'killer bees' in the Americas? They started off as well-behaved scutellatas until they mixed with the local bees.

 

[Swarm]

How many problems have we experienced through someone thinking I can't see there being a problem?

 

[Stiffy]

What about the 'killer bees' in the Americas? They started off as well-behaved scutellatas until they mixed with the local bees.

Please read my answer first, I said 'well mannered'; africanised bees (scutellatas) have as far as I am aware never been described as well mannered?
S

 

[Madge]

Please read my answer first, I said 'well mannered'; africanised bees (scutellatas) have as far as I am aware never been described as well mannered?
S

Africanised bees aren't pure scutellatas. They're hybrids - that's my point. Scutellatas are OK and well-mannered except when provoked - then they tend to get very angry.

 

[Stiffy]

Africanised bees aren't pure scutellatas. They're hybrids - that's my point. Scutellatas are OK and well-mannered except when provoked - then they tend to get very angry.

I fully realise that Africanised bees are not scutellatas, I have never had any direct experience of them and I doubt there are many on the forum who have. The original question was about taking UK bees, which are by definition a mix of strains not importing a bee from Africa.
I am a little surprised that you say scutellatas are OK and well mannered, this is something I have never heard or read off. Indeed the information I have is they are far from this and when introduced in the Americas it was thought that the greater honey gathering would be beneficial and the aggressive trait could be bred out, which was unfortunately not the case.

I think BA went in search of them but am unsure if he found them or if he ever considered them worth crossing into the Buckfast strain?
S

 

[Madge]

... I have yet to hear of evidence that introducing a well behaved strain has any effect on local strains. ...

... The original question was about taking UK bees ...

... when introduced in the Americas it was thought that the greater honey gathering would be beneficial and the aggressive trait could be bred out, which was unfortunately not the case. ...

Yes, but your answer (first quote) was wider than that. Even so, in the UK I keep hearing of people whose bees' behaviour had deteriorated because a neighbour or a newcomer to bees imported bees from abroad or somewhere else within the UK.

I'm not underplaying scutellata's angry character - but like all bees, they need to sense a danger and have a reason for attacking. When they do get angry, they follow you with far greater determination than European bees - that's true.

I don't know whether the Brazilians would have succeeded in their aim to breed out scutellata's angry character, but their experiment was cut short due to some idiot inadvertently releasing 26 queens that then swarmed - and we know the rest: we got an africanised bee far angrier than scutellata.

I think introducing a new strain of bees - wherever - might cause problems.

 

[Stiffy]

I too hear anecdotal evidence of introduced bees but I do wonder if this is a fact or just someone looking for an excuse that their bees have developed unwanted traits and that they would better off looking at their own stock first. I am very ready to stand corrected and would welcome evidence rather than gossip until then I do doubt that the strains we use if well bred would cause any problems.
I must however say the worst I have ever had the misfortune to own were supposedly well bred AMM, maybe we should not be encouraging their continuation ?
S

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[johnnie1uk]

Thanks for all your comments, though I cant see there will be a language problem for the immigrant bees, I think for transportation reasons I will opt for Iberian bees.

 

[REDWOOD]

I have never had any direct experience of them and I doubt there are many on the forum who have

Well JBM is in Africa working with them and reports that they are very good to work with

 

[victor meldrew]

I too hear anecdotal evidence of introduced bees but I do wonder if this is a fact or just someone looking for an excuse that their bees have developed unwanted traits and that they would better off looking at their own stock first. I am very ready to stand corrected and would welcome evidence rather than gossip until then I do doubt that the strains we use if well bred would cause any problems.
I must however say the worst I have ever had the misfortune to own were supposedly well bred AMM, maybe we should not be encouraging their continuation ?
S

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Hybrids creating temperament problems are far from anecdotal !
F2 crosses of Carniolian bees particularly cause management problems , having said that , hybrid vigour is a plus on the health side .
VM


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[Apple]

opt for Iberian bees

EXCITIO !

I would hate to think what your local beekeepers would do to you if you were to introduce something like the so called Buckfast hybrid into an almost genetically pure Iberian bee area!

James

 

[Stiffy]

Hybrids creating temperament problems are far from anecdotal !
F2 crosses of Carniolian bees particularly cause management problems , having said that , hybrid vigour is a plus on the health side .
VM


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Brilliant, I look forward to reading the research that shows this, would you direct me to it?
Thanks
S


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[victor meldrew]

Do your own research if you must !
Experience serves me well enough !!
VM


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[REDWOOD]

+1