Three-piece lugrest wall hive thingy

[ugcheleuce]

Hello everyone

I have no idea what to christen this hive, so... it's a three-piece lugrest wall hive. I'm going to make about 10 of these (I have that much wood). The key element is that the thick plank is 32 mm thick, and that is useful. I got a woodworking shop to saw the thick planks to the right dimensions and had them delivered in planks of about 1.5 m long. The idea is that I would use my little handsaw to saw them into the appropriate lengths when I know what thickness the side walls will have (and they can have different thicknesses).

Enough chatter, here are the images:

Step 1: eight planks per box

The eight planks are:

* Two thick pieces of wood, 32 mm thick, 100 mm tall, 394 mm long
* Four thin pieces of wood, 18 mm thick, roughly 5 cm tall, 394 mm long
* Two bigger pieces of wood (for the side-walls), 150 mm x 475 mm

(in the image above I have four pieces of left-over meranti but in the images below I used four pieces of left-over green painted spruce that I salvaged from a failed experimental hive, so don't scratch your head and wonder what happened to the meranti in the other pictures)

Step 2: make the profiled front/rear walls (where the lugs will rest)

I know the space underneath the lug rest is rather large, but that is because the thick plank comes in a standard 200 mm size and if the woodworker cuts it in half, I can get twice as many supers from it. If the extra room is an issue, I can fill it up with small pieces of wood. In the current design, there is 27 mm space above the lug rests and 18 mm (BR) or 23 mm (HN) below it.

Step 3: glue and measure

Step 4: nail with small nails, and make it right angles

Two advantages of this method for me are: it doesn't matter what size the thin planks on the front/rear of the hive is, as long as they are the right length; and I can make any size hive (or use any width side wall) with the minimum of required measurement adjustments elsewhere in the design.

Samuel

 

[wightbees]

I think you might have a problem as the inner wall leaves a large gap beside the bottom of the frame .
Looks likely the bees will make use of that.

 

[ugcheleuce]

I think you might have a problem as the inner wall leaves a large gap beside the bottom of the frame.

Yes, that has been my experience with an earlier design as well, so that will have to be fixed. Also, it has been pointed out to me that the lug rests are not 32 mm but 30 mm in the Dutch simplex-framed hive (which takes Nationals).

 

[ugcheleuce]

One more pic:

As always with hives that aren't cut to precise measurements, the biggest problem is getting the box to right angles in all three dimensions.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Yes, that has been my experience with an earlier design as well, so that will have to be fixed. Also, it has been pointed out to me that the lug rests are not 32 mm but 30 mm in the Dutch simplex-framed hive (which takes Nationals).

That's just a matter of a deeper main side wall, isn't it?

<ADD>Sorry: just saw this above. "If the extra room is an issue, I can fill it up with small pieces of wood. " </ADD>

 

[ugcheleuce]

1. That's just a matter of a deeper main side wall, isn't it?
2. Sorry: just saw this above. "If the extra room is an issue, I can fill it up with small pieces of wood."

The "extra room" I was referring to is the open space underneath the thick slab of wood. Normally you wouldn't have such open spaces in the hive.

What do you mean by "deeper" -- do you mean taller or thicker? The issue with 32 mm versus 30 mm relates to how much space you have between the frame and the wall. In the Dutch hives, there is 8.5 mm of space between the frame and the wall, but I gather that there is only about 7 mm of space between the frame and the wall in the British hive, is that correct?

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Sorry; I am sowing confusion by quoting carelessly. By deeper I meant the vertical dimension, to fill the gap beside the bottom of the frames. But you have explained why that exists and what you propose to do about it.

 

[Silex]

As always with hives that aren't cut to precise measurements, the biggest problem is getting the box to right angles in all three dimensions.

Cutting by hand is always going to cause a problem getting each piece of timber to an exact measurement unless you are really handy with a saw, and of course if the pieces are not exactly equal in size after cutting, then you'll never get it true. However, without investing in a bench saw, you could use a jigsaw to get square and equal cuts. Simply clamp another piece of wood across the timber you want to cut and use it as a guide for the jigsaw to run along. It's a bit more fiddly than simply measuring and cutting by hand, but it works!

Good Luck!

 

[Little John]

As always with hives that aren't cut to precise measurements, the biggest problem is getting the box to right angles in all three dimensions.

There's actually a fourth 'dimension' to be aware of - that of 'twist'.

Twist can be eliminated by having a proven flat surface to rest the box on whilst nailing and/or gluing-up. I use a concrete paving slab. Right-angle problem ? If you've cut the wood squarely (marked out using an engineer's square, or similar) that shouldn't then be an issue.

To make sure the box itself is square, measure from outside corner to outside corner - the measurements need to be equal to within (say) a mm.

You're doing well - keep going ...

 

[ugcheleuce]

There's actually a fourth 'dimension' to be aware of - that of 'twist'.

Yes, that is what I mean. I don't particularly care about horizontal square or vertical square, but twist-square is quite important.

Twist can be eliminated by having a proven flat surface to rest the box on whilst nailing and/or gluing-up.

I had hoped that that would be so, but it aint (in my experience).

Well, I suppose if I had a very powerful nail gun, instead of a hammer, then I would have been able to get it twist-square by placing it on a flat surface while "nailing" it. But if you use a hammer, then you have to nail the box while the box is on its side (not flat on the flat surface) (unless you push the hive against a wall or something).

For the moment I overcome the non-squareness (on the twist dimension) by tying all my hives with travelling straps.

If you've cut the wood squarely (marked out using an engineer's square, or similar) that shouldn't then be an issue.

I have no idea what affects the ability of wood to resist twist-squareness, but I suspect having non-square ends would affect it (i.e. if the saw blade does not cut at a perfect 90 degrees).

 

[ugcheleuce]

However, without investing in a bench saw, you could use a jigsaw to get square and equal cuts. Simply clamp another piece of wood across the timber you want to cut and use it as a guide for the jigsaw to run along.

I tried that (it was one of the first things that came to mind) but it didn't work, and after a while I figured out why: the blade of the jigsaw does not cut perfectly up and down for the entire length of the cut.

This is because the blade is only guided on one side, as it moves up and down. As you cut along the line, the blade starts to bend in one direction, and after a while the cut is no longer square, even if the cut is perfectly straight on the side of the wood where the line is marked. You have full control over where the blade cuts the wood on the side that you can see, but you can't control where the blade goes on the bottom side of the wood.

Or do you mean using a manual jigsaw?

 

[Little John]

Well, I suppose if I had a very powerful nail gun, instead of a hammer, then I would have been able to get it twist-square by placing it on a flat surface while "nailing" it. But if you use a hammer, then you have to nail the box while the box is on its side (not flat on the flat surface) (unless you push the hive against a wall or something).

Ok - let's see if a picture will help.

So - I make-up the 4 sides of the box - let's call them the thick side (where the lug rebates are) and the thin side (the 'sides' proper), and loosely fit 'em together to ensure they match-up.

Then, placing a thick side at the end of a thin side, I draw a line - so that the width of the rebates shows on the thin side. Using this mark I can then figure where the nails should be placed. So then I drill a couple of undersized holes for the nails in the thin side, and tap the nails into the holes.

Using the same marks ('cause they're on the inside) I then run a bead of exterior glue where the boards will meet. Placing the thick side 'end-on' onto a hard surface, I then place the side board into position on top and tap the nails in a few mm. If the joint looks good, I then drive the nails home. But if it looks skewy ('cause the glue is a bit slippery ...) I pull the nails, and hold the pieces in position using clamps (see photo), and then nail. Rotate the box, and nail all 4 corners.

I now have a box which is glued and nailed, and probably well out of square. So I place it on a known flat surface (the Mk.I ACME paving slab ), and place 2 x clamps to pull the joints tight in, for although they're glued and nailed, the nails have been driven into the end-grain (which does not give brilliant holding) and are used more to locate the planks, rather than actually secure them.

Then I compare diagonals to check for square - if there's more than a mm difference (which is most of the time), I then place a sash cramp across the longest diagonal, and tweak it gently until the diagonals become equal. Now we have a square box in the X-Y dimensions, and which should also be square in the vertical (Z), if my cuts were accurate right-angles.

This graphic is only a mock-up, of course:

At this point I check for twist, by rocking the box on the flat surface. If there is any 'rock', then I place some thin shims (cut-up credit-cards etc) under the opposing corners which are causing the pivoting, and give the other corners a good press downwards. Then check again. Sometimes that's enough to correct the twist, but if not, then I replace the shims and place heavy weights on opposite corners to hold the box down until the glue sets. Although the D4 glue I use 'sets' in 10 minutes, I leave the box for a good half-hour, sometimes longer if the twist was pronounced, to ensure the glue is strong enough to accommodate the stresses of warped wood.

The thickness of the shims used to correct twist can only be established by the judgement of experience - for they need to be thicker than the amount of 'rock', as the wood will spring back a little when the weights are removed.

One or two mm's of residual twist shouldn't be a problem, as the box will be flattened out by the weight of any boxes placed above it - but - it is always nice to get 'em spot-on.

Hope the above helps rather than confuses !