Swarm, Supercedure and Emergency cells

[Monsieur Abeille]

Is it possible to visually tell which is which?

 

[justme]

Just what I've been told, (me newbee) but I gather if very few, ie, 1 or 2ish only in centre of the comb, likey to be superscedure. Loads all over the bottoms of the frames, upto 20-30+ likely to be swarm cells, fewer maybe emergency cells, many small ones included.
Note all the likelys and maybes:.)

 

[Hombre]

I'm willing to be corrected, as my experience is limited wrt supersedure.

I entertained what I think are similar concerns to those of Monsieur Abeille.

When it came to the bit, the evidence convinced me, progressively that supersedure was the case.

I saw the queen cells which were few in number fairly late in the season. I was very uncertain, but suspicious. I left the cells a few days and checked back about a day or so before they were likely to be sealed. I noticed the queen and the fact that she was still laying. I had an inkling that so close to the cells being sealed, that normally the queen might have been encouraged to stop laying and would be prepared for swarming.

I decided to take a chance and was rewarded by seeing the queen a couple of days after the first cell was sealed. The weather had been good so I visibly relaxed. That was about the time that I was sure I was dealing with a supercedure.

The first indications of course was the queen still laying close to the time of the cells being sealed and not being groomed for swarming.

My question is, how long before sealing does a swarming queen normally stop laying?

 

[Arfermo]

Just what I've been told, (me newbee) but I gather if very few, ie, 1 or 2ish only in centre of the comb, likey to be superscedure. Loads all over the bottoms of the frames, upto 20-30+ likely to be swarm cells, fewer maybe emergency cells, many small ones included.
Note all the likelys and maybes:.)

Exactly the advice given in a visiting expert to my BKA.

 

[MuswellMetro]

My question is, how long before sealing does a swarming queen normally stop laying?

well i had mother and daughter on the frames from Mid July until my last inspection in September

if they are both is still there in april i will let you know

 

[MJBee]

well i had mother and daughter on the frames from Mid July until my last inspection in September

if they are both is still there in april i will let you know

Me too, Mother and daughter lived together quite happily from May to winter shut down - roll on first inspection but I suspect she will have gone.

 

[Poly Hive]

As posted several times on here I have known of a sup lasting 15 months, and both marked clipped queens.

PH

 

[RoofTops]

Emergency cells are fairly easy to spot. They start off as normal cells and then have the front extended and turned down so it looks a bit like a nose. They are usually much shorter than a proper queen cell.

Cells in the middle of a frame are not always supercedure cells. If there are only one or two they probably are but if there is say four or more then they are probably normal swarm cells.

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

Emergency cells are fairly easy to spot. They start off as normal cells and then have the front extended and turned down so it looks a bit like a nose. They are usually much shorter than a proper queen cell.

Cells in the middle of a frame are not always supercedure cells. If there are only one or two they probably are but if there is say four or more then they are probably normal swarm cells.

Thanks RT, nice to have it all confirmed

 

[Finman]

Is it possible to visually tell which is which?

if i see them in the picture, i cannot but when i see them in the hive, eys is the only tool which tell what it is. If a young queen's nuc starts to make queen cells, it makes to think what is going on.

The original question is not quite wise.
:

 

[drstitson]

i suppose there is a practical way to find out for yourself:

1. purposely kill your queen - emergency cells are what will develop
2. feed your bees up but keep in single brood with young queen - it'll be swarm cells that develop
3. keep your queen for several years - then you'll see supercedure cells.

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

Cheers Doc, though prehaps they are somewhat drastic ways of educating myself

 

[Finman]

.

Once I had an inseminated queen hive, which has all the time couple of queen cells and then it destroyed a capped cell. I got quite much splenden queen when I took away the cells when they were capped. It continued the whole summer.

Russian has something similar system. It may have all the time queen rearing.