split before queen cells arise?

[Mamahilz]

I am in my second year.
My primary hive is still huge. I have brood and half and 2 supers. When I examine, so many bees poor out of the hive and I struggle to replace the layers without killing many. They don't like smoke- even when I give them time, and they are rather moody, pinging off my veil (tried other smoke, water, less smoke, cool smoke, hessian, etc etc) they just don't go down for long enough. There just seems to be so many bees.
The queen is laying well. No QC at present.
I wondered if I took a few frames with eggs and brood into a nuc, and some stores, will the non flying bees make themselves a queen cell? Would this be a good way to increase? Reading the books, one author just said this wasn't a good idea, but didn't explain why, another said get a new queen for the nuc, but another suggested they would be highly likely to kill her. Any advice?

 

[Mike101]

Finding themselves queenless the nuc will try and a raise a new under the emergency impulse, but not being a very strong nest you may end up with a poor queen (although one of the best queens I ever had was raised just so).

A better idea is to do an artificial swarm which would leave a strong nest and a much better chance of a good queen.

 

[oliver90owner]

Or Demaree.

RAB

 

[MuswellMetro]

agree with RAB

a demaree will induce them to make nice QC in the top box but you will need to have a drone exit as they will die in the top QE

i have never done it with brood and half but on 14x12 if just using brood boxes bring up four frames of eggs/larva /emerging brood frames without the Q to a top brood box above the supers and with a QE separating it from the super . In the top box is the four brood frames in the middle with dummy boards either side then the voids either side filled with foundation frames

so i assume in brood and a half

roof
drone exit crown board
brood box+four brood frames central, packed out
QE
SUPER
SUPER
QE
Brood ~SUPER
Brood ~BRood box +Q minus 4 brood frames
OMF

 

[For want of a better word]

MM.. would you put four brood frames with new foundation at the sides of the Q+ BB? to make up the gap left when taking four to the top.

and because I have not ever tried this, would you leave the porter escape hole fully open? or close it down a bit with a piece of slate, and let drone out through a Thorn8es conical bee escape, the hole in the end seems to be 7/32 inch dia?
Suppose I could go catch a couple of drones and see if they can escape... but its raining!!

 

[Dave /Oscroft]

Demaree

This is the Demaree system I have used this year (if the attachments work)

Dave W

 

[Finman]

.
1,5 +2 supers is not a huge hive. It is a minimum hive which may forage yield. With 6 supers it is huge.

Take care that bees have enough space.

If you have a good hive, don't spoil/split it before it is necessary.