Queen cell found - what to do?

[B+.]

Because her bees seem to think it's necessary.
.

Sometimes the bees think its necessary to swarm yet we don't let them.

 

[mbc]

Sometimes the bees think its necessary to swarm yet we don't let them.

Utterly irrelevant, surely the point of giving advice on this thread is to give the op the correct information so that her colony has the best chance of thriving, your advice gives a good chance of it fizzling out as far as I can tell from afar.

 

[B+.]

Utterly irrelevant, surely the point of giving advice on this thread is to give the op the correct information so that her colony has the best chance of thriving, your advice gives a good chance of it fizzling out as far as I can tell from afar.

My point is that the bees don't always make the right choice either. Thats why so many die out.

Only the OP can know what the state of the colony is.

everything else appears "normal", although the brood amount is decreasing from earlier in the year.

Without better evidence than we've been given, I would say the queen could still be good. Its perfectly normal for the queen to lay less brood later in the season

 

[Finman]

So, whats wrong with the queen thats laying in there now? If the brood pattern is alright, why replace her?

If it is question about that supercede Queen, if you stop its cell emerging, they try again and change the Queen in Winter and you will have a drone layer then.

 

[B+.]

If it is question about that supercede Queen, if you stop its cell emerging, they try again and change the Queen in Winter and you will have a drone layer then.

I completely agree Finman, but I have not read anything yet that tells me the queen is deffective. Thats the only reason I'm arguing from this position. If someone was to say she had a bad brood pattern or she was spitting out drones, I'd agree with all the other posts that she should be replaced. However, I'm not convinced that is the case. It would be amazing if a queen less than three months old had suddenly stopped producing worker brood

 

[Finman]

Without better evidence than we've been given, I would say the queen could still be good. Its perfectly normal for the queen to lay less brood later in the season

When you have 70 hives, the risk of loosing one Queen means nothing. But if you have two hives, the Queen is 50% Winter loss.

 

[Finman]

Agreed. The queen is from this year though. I'd be extremely suprised if she was poorly mated and running out of steam already

It is quite common, that bees change too a new queen .

In Australia it was researched, the if queen breeder sells queens, which have layed under two weeks, 30% will be superceded. If queens are sended via air or lanf post, 30% will bd changed.

One year I bought from Italy 4 queens in May. All queen were superceded in June. They layed well, but bees wanted to change them.

 

[Finman]

I completely agree Finman, but I have not read anything yet that tells me the queen is deffective. Thats the only reason I'm arguing from this position. If someone was to say she had a bad brood pattern or she was spitting out drones,

Brood pattern is no evidence. And few hive owners are not able to describe what is happening there.

In my early years I had 18 hives. 6 hives made queen cells in late summer, and I squeezed queen cells all up to autumn. In spring I had 6 drone layers. After that I have changed all queens what bees want to supercede. 33% losses.
And supecede queens are mostly under average. They are not worth to keep.

The most important in queen breeding is to squeeze queens and queen cells. It is called selection..

When a cat gets 3 times a year 5 puppies, they must be squeezed. Otherwise it happens like in my next door house, that you have 50 cats in your house.

 

[B+.]

Brood pattern is no evidence.

Brood pattern covers many things... e.g. diploid drones being removed

 

[Thymallus]

If someone was to say she had a bad brood pattern or she was spitting out drones, I'd agree with all the other posts that she should be replaced.

For what it's worth had a queen stop laying after moving to heather. Bees naturally started on a few supercedure cells. Queen started laying again after a 2 week break. Destroyed suoercedure cells. All appears to be back to normal, no more supercedure cells...I figured the move somehow affected her laying......but a question mark in hive notes to watch this queen in case the bees were right and I was wrong.

 

[B+.]

All queen were superceded in June. They layed well, but bees wanted to change them.

Did you allow them to supercede a bought-in queen? If I'd done that when they raised supercedure cells on my drone mother, I'd have lost a big part of my breeding programme for next year

 

[B+.]

a question mark in hive notes to watch this queen in case the bees were right and I was wrong.

Thats a sensible approach. I've seen newly mated queens being moved into nucs to build up and the bees start raising supercedure cells from her first few eggs. I destroyed the cells and the queen filled the nuc with eggs within a few days. There was nothing wrong with the queen

 

[stilllearning]

Leave alone, for all you know there already is another hatched out queen in there , they know what there doing ........we don't . And IMO don't put thymol on if they're relatively weak as when I used thymol several years ago the common result was any weak colony got hammered or killed off by wasps , I can only assume the smell from the thymol seemed to confuse the bees as to whatever flew in the front was friend or foe .
TBH I rather like wasps as if they're overrunning a hive then that hive isn't worth having .......natural selection and all that

 

[Finman]

Did you allow them to supercede a bought-in queen? If I'd done that when they raised supercedure cells on my drone mother, I'd have lost a big part of my breeding programme for next year

I knew why they supercede and I put queen cells into mating nucs. I got good virgins from those 4 queens. It was period, when I breeded chalk brood away from my hives and I needed lots of extra queens.

 

[B+.]

I knew why they supercede and I put queen cells into mating nucs. I got good virgins from those 4 queens. It was period, when I breeded chalk brood away from my hives and I needed lots of extra queens.

Good...so...your original queen was ok. Thats exactly my point.

 

[B+.]

TBH I rather like wasps as if they're overrunning a hive then that hive isn't worth having .......natural selection and all that

You don't reduce entrances towards the end of the season?

 

[mbc]

Did you allow them to supercede a bought-in queen? If I'd done that when they raised supercedure cells on my drone mother, I'd have lost a big part of my breeding programme for next year

So the bees detect something not quite right with her or her eggs and yet you crack on and plan a large part of your breeding programme round her!?
There is a big difference between people who buy in queen s and propagate lots of daughters from them and people who keep a strain of bees and carefully evaluate the lines over seasons to chose their breeding material. I'm not averse to a bit of both going on but I now which philosophy I think helps to preserve biodiversity.

 

[B+.]

So the bees detect something not quite right with her or her eggs and yet you crack on and plan a large part of your breeding programme round her!?
There is a big difference between people who buy in queen s and propagate lots of daughters from them and people who keep a strain of bees and carefully evaluate the lines over seasons to chose their breeding material. I'm not averse to a bit of both going on but I now which philosophy I think helps to preserve biodiversity.

If you'd followed my posts on 6-172-15-2013-K, you'd know that she has an excellent pedigree and has high breeding values in all categories assessed in the BeeBreed programme (c 6,000 queens per year are assessed). They raised 5 supercedure cells (which I destroyed) from the first few eggs she laid inside an introduction cage. She subsequently laid 3 more frames of eggs within about a week. There's nothing wrong with this queen

 

[Finman]

.
Nothing wrong, but bees want to get ridd of it. The Result is a drone layer.

Take or leave it. Your hive.

 

[mbc]

.
Nothing wrong, but bees want to get ridd of it. The Result is a drone layer.

Take or leave it. Your hive.