How long after the Queen exiting can a hive still make queen cells?

[Nick Lang]

I have a hive with a charged queen cell in....they superceded her after she disappeared.

Just curious...How long after a queen leaves/dies can a hive make a queen cell?

I guess "how long after the Queen exits before a hive is considered to be hopelessly queenless?"

 

[Wilco]

Doing it after she disappeared would be more like emergency cells than supercedure.

In answer to your question, it's based on how queens are raised. IIRC, the thing that differentiates queens from workers is what they are fed. For the first three days of being a larva, all larvae are fed royal jelly. Thereafter, brood destined to be workers is fed worker jelly. Brood destined to be a queen continues to be fed royal jelly up until pupation.

Bee eggs remain as eggs for three days before hatching.

So realistically, three days as an egg and three days as a larva gives you a total of six days from the date of the last egg being laid for them to rear a viable queen.

 

[ericbeaumont]

they superceded her after she disappeared

Chronology is not right: as Will mentioned, emergency QCs would be made if a queen disappeared.

Supersedure by the daughter takes place while the mother is resident. In swarm season, a colony may swarm on supersedure.

Queens do not just disappear. Has your colony swarmed?

 

[Nick Lang]

No deffo not swarmed....most likely an emergency as you say....however...there is only one cell in there and the timing (from last inspection) doesn't seem to add up.
I mentioned it as I was tempted to knock the cell down and introduce a mated queen

 

[ericbeaumont]

not swarmed

Was the queen clipped?

only one cell

Do you have a photo?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

how can you tell?
Had a colony last week that swarmed on just two QCs

 

[ericbeaumont]

the timing (from last inspection) doesn't seem to add up

We're watching episode 2 of Miss Marple but need the back story in episode 1 to look for clues.

As bees emerge at 1000-1500 or more a day it is possible for the beekeeper to see a full hive a few days after they swarmed and believe that they haven't. In the interval between swarming and the beekeeper visit, the empty cells may have been removed.

How regularly and at what interval did you inspect? (asked Miss Marple).

 

[Nick Lang]

Sorry about the late reply....to clarify....as I tend to be overly brief and somewhat inarticulate at points
I went into the hive to do an inspection....queen was there and so were a bunch of play cups....and on one frame there was a open QC...thought to myself must do a split tomorrow.....anyway....had a busy couple of days working outside... remembered I had to do a split....this was about three days after.....no Queen ...one sealed QC....hive doesn't feel like any bees left ...still feels the same if not more.
Couldn't have swarmed ( I know famous last words!!!).....I've been outside in the grounds every day all day, tidying the gardens....I would have noticed I reckon.

 

[Nick Lang]

I'm just gonna let the QC come through...and if she's good .....and if she ain't she'll meet the gatepost and I'll requeen

 

[enrico]

They have swarmed. It takes minutes, if you see them swarm and look at all your hives straight away you wouldnt be able to tell which one had swarmed. All looks normal. 30000 bees is still slot of bees and it isn't easy even if you open all your hives to know which one it came out of. The main signs are those you have seen , queen cells followed by no queen. I have had a hive swarm behind me whilst checking another hive, if it wasn't for the noise I would have missed it.

 

[Sutty]

I've had a hive swarm whilst inspecting a hive within 5m to one side.
I looked up, saw them all in the air, watched them pitch, and at no point from me noticing them in the air could I tell which hive they were from - extremely frustrating!!

 

[ericbeaumont]

just gonna let the QC come through.

The departure of the queen has resulted in the absence of Q pheromone which may trigger EQCs, in which case the colony will have more than the QC you saw, and may throw cast swarms.

To be certain of the outcome, shake bees off all frames (except the one with the chosen cell) and remove all but that one QC.

 

[Cole lynch]

Firstly:
How do you know there is no queen? Check thoroughly for Queen & other cells.
If they are superseding her she is likely still in situ.
They’re judged to be hopelessly Queenless only when all larvae are capped.

 

[Erichalfbee]

They’re judged to be hopelessly Queenless only when all larvae are capped.

Minus a couple of days