Hokey-cokey bees – or out/in swarm?

[Norvic_chris]

Any thoughts on whether a swarm is likely to go BACK into the hive that it came from? I’m sure I’ve seen here somewhere that people have seen this.

I had a swarm in the hedge close to my hives this afternoon. I spotted it (the noise) while gardening and in the time it took for me to show the kids, put on a bee suit, find an old sheet and repair my sturdy cardboard box (around 30 minutes!) it had beggared off. Bother, I thought (or similar words) – lost it.
But there were loads of bees (a swarm-load?) at the front of one of my hives – it looked very much as though they had decided to return home. I think this is where they came from as there were loads there before the swarm clustered in the hedge (I watched them gathering).

I did an artificial swarm 2 weeks ago – this hive had 2 unsealed QCs left. Sod’s law that both have hatched and a swarm will come (it’s happened before!) but which law says they can go back in? And why? There was strong citrus/lemon grass scent of queen at the entrance. I didn't actually see them go back from hedge to hive, so maybe I’m just being hopeful. Presumably they’ll be out again tomorrow when I'm at work (I’ve added extra bait hives -- although they had ignored all the ones I've got out so far!). I didn’t inspect so as not to disturb potential virgin Q(s).

I have several beeks nearby – one with around 40 hives, so always a chance they’re not mine anyway (which would make this even stranger!).
Any thoughts/ideas? Anything I should do? Many thanks in advance.

 

[itma]

I suspect that you saw 2 different things happening around the same time.
A cast swarm (that scarpered).
And a mating flight (with bees 'bearding' on their return to their hive).

From QC capping, the new Q could be ready to fly (and mate or depart) in as little as about 11 days.
Soooo... if the open cells were within 3 days of capping, that would fit with your fortnight.


If you reduce to just 1 QC, (and check while you expect it to be sealed that no new ones have appeared) then you are pretty sure not to lose any bee-power in a cast.
However, the hive can be left Q- if the QC fails. Hence some decide to leave 2 QCs - but that shouldn't be needed with open cells.
Queens can be replaced, but bee-power is lost for ever.

 

[Norvic_chris]

Aha -- yes, itma, that fits with the facts. And seems much more likely than a swarm returning home! Incredible that the cast took flight so quickly -- not much more that 30 minutes from apparent formation on the branch to vanishing. If I hadn't been here, I would never have known it had happened anyway. What a shame to lose all those bees - you're right, I left 2 cells on the advice that leaving just one is too risky. Just hope mating flight(s) will be successful and at least I have something with which to build. Thanks for the response, Chris

 

[Chris Luck]

In the last 7 days I've had at least 4 swarms return to their issuing hives, it isn't unusual when conditions aren't right even after clustering nearby.

Chris

 

[thebhoy]

one of my hives have done it twice in May....the first time on 1st May bank holiday and the 2nd time last Thursday.....both returned....but only after letting all my neighbours know I have bees the first time and then to be sure they knew, reminding them the second time ... noisy little f****rs

Reason for coming back being that the queen is clipped so never left with them and I had removed QC's previously.

 

[beeno]

one of my hives have done it twice in May....the first time on 1st May bank holiday and the 2nd time last Thursday.....both returned....but only after letting all my neighbours know I have bees the first time and then to be sure they knew, reminding them the second time ... noisy little f****rs

Reason for coming back being that the queen is clipped so never left with them and I had removed QC's previously.

Hi thebhoy,
This is my argument for not clipping the queen - if you have neighbours who are close by. If you don't clip it is all over in a couple of minutes. If you clip then they get confused and swirl around for hours which is not nice for neighbours who want to sit in their garden.

 

[thebhoy]

Beeno....was done and dusted in an hour and all going back into hive on each occasion it was between 2.30 and 3pm they took off.........now I am nervous each day waiting on a call at that time.

Going forward I would use clipped queens again for sure rather than lose half a colony.

 

[Norvic_chris]

In the last 7 days I've had at least 4 swarms return to their issuing hives, it isn't unusual when conditions aren't right even after clustering nearby.

Chris

one of my hives have done it twice in May....the first time on 1st May bank holiday and the 2nd time last Thursday.....both returned....

This is fascinating, thank you -- worth noting that I had another swarm today in almost the same part of the hedge. I caught this one but it seemed a little smaller (max 3 frames). Now, is it the one that I saw yesterday that might have gone back home (for whatever reason) and has had another go or is it a new cast? Did I miss a Q cell in there somewhere? It wouldn't be the first time!

I suppose I'll never know. The question is, why would they be allowed back in the hive if there was another Q in there already? Mine would undoubtedly be virgins and not clipped.