Has anyone worked on breeding bees with enhanced sense of smell?

[Fusion_power]

As I noted above Finman, I'm not selecting bees for enhanced sense of smell. I suspect my bees already have enhanced smell because of their behavior. This is not proven and certainly is subject to a lot of verification. I want to put some bees under a microscope and see if there are physical changes. If there are, then there is an immediate benefit that could be used by other breeders. If not, then there are behavioral changes that might be useful in selection. The critical thought in this is don't just sit still, watch what the bees are doing and figure out if there is an advantage to be gained from those behaviors.

Watch the video I linked above, near the end, Danny Weaver details several of the same things I am seeing. I did not know about this video until I posted about this on beesource and someone there found the video.

 

[Finman]

.
Jep... YouTube academy...somebody found a video, which had an answer. Good work.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I'm not saying that my bees have an enhanced sense of smell,

I suspect my bees already have enhanced smell

Sheesh, we are delving into the realms of fantasy here - haven't had this kind of feeling since I was accidentally locked in the Queens Warehouse with ten tons of cannabis resin and half a ton of Skunk!!

Some colonies this time of year are bringing in white pollen and some bringing in yellow pollen, the more prolific colonies are on the white pollen I can't put my finger on it but probably genetics.

Colour blindness Paul - had a similar problem with an ambidextrous colony, couldn't tell their left from their right - forever misinterpreting the waggle dance!!

There is at least one problem, bees with enhanced sense of smell are very difficult to requeen.

really, you must guide me to the papers

 

[B+.]

haven't had this kind of feeling since I was accidentally locked in the Queens Warehouse with ten tons of cannabis resin and half a ton of Skunk!!

Are you sure it was an accident?

 

[Michael Palmer]

These are items I've read that are associated with enhanced sense of smell.

Not on your list, but I believe Brother Adam used propensity to rob when selecting for bees with a good sense of smell.

 

[Finman]

.
Good sense of smell

The whole life system of honey bee inside the dark hive works with smells. Brood rearing in different stages for example.

IT is important to imagine that every aspect of smell could be seen in antennae under microscope. And all those variations in evolution.

I think that I am going to love ordinary people kitchen science. And if the hobby researcher is over 80 years old, the better.

I got 5 years researcher education in university, but some just begin to research and they get results almost next day. That tells how higher education can be mere time killing.
.
And all those first year beekeepers' videos in YouTube . The salt of life.
.

 

[Fusion_power]

Page 5 of this document attributes enhanced sense of smell to hygienic brood removal.

www.sare.org/content/download/5132/51236/file/03AGI2005.pdf

I've dug through several hundred research documents over the last few weeks. There is a consistent theme that enhanced pest resistance is correlated with enhanced sense of smell. The problem is that so far it is all speculation. Nobody has proven that there are changes in antennae structure or that anything else is different about the bees.

This is speculation:

1. Selection for hygienic behavior is a valid proxy for selecting for enhanced sense of smell.

2. Enhanced sense of smell is a crucial trait in highly expressed VSH and mite mauling behaviors.

3. The chain of behaviors modified must include traits for brood uncapping and brood removal.

4. Mite mauling must be linked with enhanced sense of smell for the bees to be able to detect the mites.

The problem is that I can't think of a good way to verify that the bees have changed their sense of smell. One way to test my bees would be to run a thorough hygienic test on them and see if they are as hygienic as I expect. I can't do this at present since the bees are busy the last round of brood before winter bees are produced in October. I will put it down as a spring project.

 

[oliver90owner]

How do you know they have an enhanced sense of smell? How would you even begin to measure it?

I'm not sure how you could measure this directly


B+ is on the money. Rediculous thread. Get real and look at better traits, is my advice. Something that you might actually be able to measure would be good.

 

[Michael Palmer]

Amen.

 

[Finman]

Page 5 of this document attributes enhanced sense of smell to hygienic brood removal.

The problem is that I can't think of a good way to verify that the bees have changed their sense of smell.


One way to test my bees would be to run a thorough hygienic test
.

I suggest that you make DNA maps and compare changed smell and non hanged smell bees. It may cost a little bit but money is not everything. As it was told to me.
.
.

 

[Fusion_power]

Good idea Finman, lets get your rich wife to foot the bill. With a bit of creative salesmanship, I think I can get the price down to $85 per sample. We only need to test 300 samples so make it $26,000 in round figures. Do you think she might spring for some extra so your bees can be tested as controls?

 

[Finman]

Good idea Finman, lets get your rich wife to foot the bill. With a bit of creative salesmanship, I think I can get the price down to $85 per sample. We only need to test 300 samples so make it $26,000 in round figures. Do you think she might spring for some extra so your bees can be tested as controls?

You want to prove that your bees have better smell than mine. And my wife pays it...

We need to test... Who is "we"?

I remember that you have thousands of dollars business

 

[Fusion_power]

I remember that you have thousands of dollars business

I also have a sense of humor.

 

[chrisb]

my wife came up with the solution for checking the sense of smell within a colony

her idea was place one of my socks at the entrance, the more bees that pass the sock the less sense of smell they have

 

[Finman]

my wife came up with the solution for checking the sense of smell within a colony

her idea was place one of my socks at the entrance, the more bees that pass the sock the less sense of smell they have

That is real hygienic behaviour!..,

 

[Finman]

I also have a sense of humor.

Really!.... I thought that your are loundring money in your green house and with your saw dust heap. .. Sign, sign, sign.

 

[REDWOOD]

I think someone would need to genetically re master the honey bee to get this.
Honey bees have 170 odor receptors or chemoreceptors, fruit flies only have 62.

 

[Fusion_power]

It is not that far fetched and given known variability in the honeybee genome is likely achievable and may have already been done. As a human example, it is very well established that some people have a much better sense of smell than others. It is also proven that some people have exceptionally acute sense of taste. Look up "super taster" if you want to read about it. It is well known that bloodhounds have much better sense of smell than other dog breeds. I would argue that there is plenty of diversity in the honeybee genome to permit breeding for enhanced sense of smell.

To take your concept further, the immune system of honeybees is known to be relatively weak. The fly has a far more robust immune system. How much trouble would it be to lift the immune system from the fly and insert into the honeybee? Before you post the obvious, I'm well aware that this is beyond our current capabilities, but within 10 years, genetic knowledge and methods are likely to advance to this level. It opens up huge potential for changing genomes in any way we choose. This could have disastrous effects on life forms around us.

 

[Anduril]

Having read this thread it has the realms of "Fantasy Island", I'm waiting for Tattoo to pop up and shout "The plane, the plane". Also "Mysterious Island" with giant bees.
How about genetic modification for bees to have a smooth sting instead of barbs, save a lot of dead bees.

 

[Finman]

It is not that far fetched and given known variability in the honeybee genome is likely achievable and may have already been done. As a human example, it is very well established that some people have a much better sense of smell than others. It is also proven that some people have exceptionally acute sense of taste. Look up "super taster" if you want to read about it. It is well known that bloodhounds have much better sense of smell than other dog breeds. I would argue that there is plenty of diversity in the honeybee genome to permit breeding for enhanced sense of smell.

To take your concept further, the immune system of honeybees is known to be relatively weak. The fly has a far more robust immune system. How much trouble would it be to lift the immune system from the fly and insert into the honeybee? Before you post the obvious, I'm well aware that this is beyond our current capabilities, but within 10 years, genetic knowledge and methods are likely to advance to this level. It opens up huge potential for changing genomes in any way we choose. This could have disastrous effects on life forms around us.

Halleluja

.sorry, Amen... Disasterous Super Amen