American foulbrood cleaning and control

[mbc]

It's a funny pathogen afb, it's not actually that infectious, it's deadliest attribute is physical in that the bees struggle to clean the gloop left by a collapsed larvae and so end up reinfecting other larvae due to sticky crap all over their mouthpieces. Given the use of a bucket and spade they'd have little bother with an odd larvae dying of the bacteria.
There's a great paper from upsalla University where they relate evidence of many colonies getting better after shook swarming despite initially still showing high counts of the causative agent by pcr tests, those which didn't develop clinical symptoms rid themselves of any detectable signs of the disease in 6 months.

 

[Finman]

It's a funny pathogen afb, it's not actually that infectious, it's deadliest attribute is physical in that the bees struggle to clean the gloop left by a collapsed larvae and so end up reinfecting other larvae due to sticky crap all over their mouthpieces. Given the use of a bucket and spade they'd have little bother with an odd larvae dying of the bacteria.
There's a great paper from upsalla University where they relate evidence of many colonies getting better after shook swarming despite initially still showing high counts of the causative agent by pcr tests, those which didn't develop clinical symptoms rid themselves of any detectable signs of the disease in 6 months.

Shook swarm must be put onto foundations, as Upsala paper says. AFB spores come put from the bee with feces. So the bees must consume their honey from belly and they get ridd of spores.

This is the base, how beekeepeers in Scandinavia and in Germany clean their apiaries without killing bees.

 

[Wilco]

It's a funny pathogen afb, it's not actually that infectious, it's deadliest attribute is physical in that the bees struggle to clean the gloop left by a collapsed larvae and so end up reinfecting other larvae due to sticky crap all over their mouthpieces. Given the use of a bucket and spade they'd have little bother with an odd larvae dying of the bacteria.
There's a great paper from upsalla University where they relate evidence of many colonies getting better after shook swarming despite initially still showing high counts of the causative agent by pcr tests, those which didn't develop clinical symptoms rid themselves of any detectable signs of the disease in 6 months.

Post #12 I think if anyone wants to read it/see the reference.

 

[Patrick1]

The best thing we could do is to register our bees, the take up on Beebase is appallingly low. Maybe a compulsory system would be more effective, also help beekeepers understand that it is not necessarily a reflection on their beekeeping although some are obviously contributors.

We also need beekeepers to be able to spot it, if you are a confirmed case, get the SBI to host an identification event around your apiary, there is nothing better than actually seeing it. Let’s work together to eradicate the stigma behind having it.

 

[Finman]

It's a funny pathogen afb, it's not actually that infectious, it's deadliest attribute is physical in that the bees struggle to clean the gloop left by a collapsed larvae and so end up reinfecting other larvae due to sticky crap all over their mouthpieces. Given the use of a bucket and spade they'd have little bother with an odd larvae dying of the bacteria.

Actually it is not larvae which collapse. In first stage AFB can be in the hive 2 years before visible symptons appear. Spores can be seen in the laboratory test only.

Next stage is that you see one or two pupa cap which have a small hole like sticked with pin. Under hole ypu may find coffee brown slime. Next week you may see hundreds of those holes in the capped frame. And the hive stinks.

Sac brood has a little bit similar symtons, but the dead pupa has no slimen

It is EFB where larvi collapse.

 

[mbc]

Actually it is not larvae which collapse. In first stage AFB can be in the hive 2 years before visible symptons appear. Spores can be seen in the laboratory test only.

Next stage is that you see one or two pupa cap which have a small hole like sticked with pin. Under hole ypu may find coffee brown slime. Next week you may see hundreds of those holes in the capped frame. And the hive stinks.

Sac brood has a little bit similar symtons, but the dead pupa has no slimen

It is EFB where larvi collapse.

That brown coffee slime is a collapsed larvae.

 

[Boston Bees]

That brown coffee slime is a collapsed larvae.

I think Finman is suggesting that AFB kills at the pupal stage, rather than the larval stage (EFB kills at the larval stage).

Whether this is 100% technically correct, I don't know. But I believe it is certainly true that AFB causes collapse after capping, whereas EFB causes collapse before capping.

 

[mbc]

I think Finman is suggesting that AFB kills at the pupal stage, rather than the larval stage (EFB kills at the larval stage).

Whether this is 100% technically correct, I don't know. But I believe it is certainly true that AFB causes collapse after capping, whereas EFB causes collapse before capping.

I'm not quite sure when a larvae turns into a pupa( I doubt the bees or the afb do either!) sometime after capping before the final larval moult would be my guess from sketchy memory, either way, its semantic and utterly irrelevant imho

 

[Boston Bees]

I'm not quite sure when a larvae turns into a pupa( I doubt the bees or the afb do either!) sometime after capping before the final larval moult would be my guess from sketchy memory, either way, its semantic and utterly irrelevant imho

Yep, fair assessment

 

[Finman]

That brown coffee slime is a collapsed larvae.

But the cell has a cap. It is not an open larva cell.
.
OK I checked that the brood dies as larva stage.

 

[mbc]

But the cell has a cap. It is not an open larva cell.
.
OK I checked that the brood dies as larva stage.

Yes.
I concede that the point of difference from a beekeepers perspective is efb is seen in uncapped larvae and afb is best spotted by perforated cappings when the larvae below has died.

 

[tonyofarr]

SWMBO spotted AFB in a hive when there was one cell that looked like it had white pva glue in the bottom, it had not got as far as coffee coloured, nor was the cell capped. A positive lateral flow test confirmed diagnosis.

The affected hive was at a new apiary for us that had tested positive for EFB the previous year; We had destroyed the affected bees, shook swarmed the rest and burnt the frames and cleaned everything. When we got AFB SWMBO decided to destroy all the bees at that apiary, and never use it again. I should add that we never found the source of the foulbrood despite the best efforts of the SBI and looking at bee base they have had outbreaks of both diseases in that area this year.

 

[Finman]

SWMBO spotted AFB in a hive when there was one cell that looked like it had white pva glue in the bottom, it had not got as far as coffee coloured, nor was the cell capped. A positive lateral flow test confirmed diagnosis.

As I have written, AFB can be found from hive's honey, even if you cannot see any sick brood.
It can be found only in laboratory in cultivation test. And material is honey. AFB spores stand 130 C temperature.

We call those cases " hidden AFB".