Winter Pre enquiry

[SWEET]

Hi

Have been reading a lot regards WP and came across the below link that seems logical but wanted to check as there seems many different methods people are using , i guess they all work as long as the bee's have enough stores etc , anyway please can the more experienced take a look as interested in opinions .

norfolkbee. co.uk/beekeepers-resource/winter-preparation

To sum-up , Super under BB with QE removed etc , i was going to simply remove the QE and leave the Super above the BB .

Thanks
Andy

 

[madasafish]

Hi

Have been reading a lot regards WP and came across the below link that seems logical but wanted to check as there seems many different methods people are using , i guess they all work as long as the bee's have enough stores etc , anyway please can the more experienced take a look as interested in opinions .

norfolkbee. co.uk/beekeepers-resource/winter-preparation

To sum-up , Super under BB with QE removed etc , i was going to simply remove the QE and leave the Super above the BB .

Thanks
Andy

Hot air rises. So you are ensuring a colder brood box so queen migrates to super..
Undersupering results in bees transferring honey from super to brood box...

 

[SWEET]

Hot air rises. So you are ensuring a colder brood box so queen migrates to super..
Undersupering results in bees transferring honey from super to brood box...

What about using Celotex®... to trap the rising thermals in the super ? would this not keep cluster in the BB ?

 

[Swarm]

Bees want their stores above, if it's capped leave it there without the excluder. If you have partially capped frames or uncapped nectar, put it below so the bees transfer it upstairs.

 

[B+.]

What about using Celotex®... to trap the rising thermals in the super ? would this not keep cluster in the BB ?

There is lots of talk about this on the forum, but, I'm not sure it's such a good idea.
The natural behavior of the honeybee is to pack winter stores above them. In winter, they climb up higher in the cavity, consuming the stores below and moving up where it is warmer. This behavior developed over millions of years and has served them well.
The modern trend towards more and more insulation is a negative evolutionary pressure on honeybees. It allows colonies that don't cluster properly to survive (see Michael Palmers NHS presentation on YouTube - he has some good examples of the tight/loose clustering of winter bees in North America). This is all very well so long as that protection is available to them, but, they become less well adapted to colder weather without human help i.e. swarms would be less able to survive

 

[SWEET]

There is lots of talk about this on the forum, but, I'm not sure it's such a good idea.
The natural behavior of the honeybee is to pack winter stores above them. In winter, they climb up higher in the cavity, consuming the stores below and moving up where it is warmer. This behavior developed over millions of years and has served them well.
The modern trend towards more and more insulation is a negative evolutionary pressure on honeybees. It allows colonies that don't cluster properly to survive (see Michael Palmers NHS presentation on YouTube - he has some good examples of the tight/loose clustering of winter bees in North America). This is all very well so long as that protection is available to them, but, they become less well adapted to colder weather without human help i.e. swarms would be less able to survive

Very interesting thanks and more info to add into the mix , one thing that was interesting regards moving the Super under the BB was the application of acid and the need to remove the BB etc , again more reading required and i guess you simply pick a mild day .

 

[colinc]

The main advantage of moving the super under is there will be less brood in it to clear in spring. If you plan to stay brood and a half that won't matter though


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Nonabeeone]

This thread seems to deal with a query I was going to post - what to do with supers pre and over winter.

So, with super under Brood box, I can put Apiguard directly onto brood box frames ? And then a month later when treatment has finished I'll start to feed. Do I keep the super in hive throughout winter?

Thanks to everyone for their help

 

[Beefriendly]

i was going to simply remove the QE and leave the Super above the BB .

Nowt wrong with doing it that way. Gives a nice short gap between super and brood frames from top of hive for winter cluster to move around; rather than them having to negotiate all the way to bottom or side of long deep brood frame
Never sure why people don't like it.
Possibly because queen usually starts laying in super in spring (top and warmest) and it upsets their preconceived ideas of where a queen should lay...or they don't like to extract future honey from a cell a bee larvae has once shat in . I just add QE in spring (with queen below) and let them raise the larvae and then let them fill the empty cells with spring honey.
Many do it this way.

 

[Eyeman]

Nowt wrong with doing it that way. Gives a nice short gap between super and brood frames from top of hive for winter cluster to move around; rather than them having to negotiate all the way to bottom or side of long deep brood frame
Never sure why people don't like it.
Possibly because queen usually starts laying in super in spring (top and warmest) and it upsets their preconceived ideas of where a queen should lay...or they don't like to extract future honey from a cell a bee larvae has once shat in . I just add QE in spring (with queen below) and let them raise the larvae and then let them fill the empty cells with spring honey.
Many do it this way.

If you want to get honey from the spring flow then this is the way forward. Come spring brood will bridge the super & brood box. Put the QE above the brood with an empty super above the QE then all that spring honey goes in the empty super. Keep the brood tight up against the excluder, prevent a honey band forming at the top of the brood box and keep those empty supers above the QE.
All assuming the weather is favourable and the forage is there.

 

[SWEET]

Great help indeed, cheers chaps .

 

[user 6228]

There is lots of talk about this on the forum, but, I'm not sure it's such a good idea.
The natural behavior of the honeybee is to pack winter stores above them. In winter, they climb up higher in the cavity, consuming the stores below and moving up where it is warmer. This behavior developed over millions of years and has served them well.
The modern trend towards more and more insulation is a negative evolutionary pressure on honeybees. It allows colonies that don't cluster properly to survive (see Michael Palmers NHS presentation on YouTube - he has some good examples of the tight/loose clustering of winter bees in North America). This is all very well so long as that protection is available to them, but, they become less well adapted to colder weather without human help i.e. swarms would be less able to survive

what about the evolutionary pressure of chopping down all the trees that have hollows in them? The requirement to winter in a poorly insulated nest is foisted on them by man. Their natural nest selection behaviours show they evolved for nests much more insulated than wooden boxes

 

[Hivemaker.]

what about the evolutionary pressure of chopping down all the trees that have hollows in them?

Not all the tree that have hollows in them have been chopped down, I know of 20 that haven't been chopped down just in this area.

 

[Beefriendly]

what about the evolutionary pressure of chopping down all the trees that have hollows in them?

There was evolutionary selection for chopping trees only with hollows in them?
Makes sense as that would be where all the original "log jam" hives came from.

.

 

[Swarm]

Not all bees nest in hollow trees. Too many variables to apply a definitive, which always allows a cop out. Bees evolved to cope with conditions, which is why we have the sub species. Bees not able to cope with our Winters (?) are quite possibly the wrong bee.
Plenty of stores and disease/pest free is the formula for Winter preparation.

 

[Beefriendly]

Not all bees nest in hollow trees.

Spot on, according to Eva Crane about 40-50% of wild nests are underground utilizing natural "caves" and the like. Many wasps nest are also subterranean, but these are more an extended excavation of a smaller hole.

 

[Swarm]

When I was a youngster, there was a wild colony I knew of that used multiple entrances in what looked like a banking. If you investigated behind this bank, it was part of a rocky outcrop and you could crawl into a large void where the combs were located above. They ignored the large entrance in favour of the smaller ones.

 

[SWEET]

Nowt wrong with doing it that way. Gives a nice short gap between super and brood frames from top of hive for winter cluster to move around; rather than them having to negotiate all the way to bottom or side of long deep brood frame
Never sure why people don't like it.
Possibly because queen usually starts laying in super in spring (top and warmest) and it upsets their preconceived ideas of where a queen should lay...or they don't like to extract future honey from a cell a bee larvae has once shat in . I just add QE in spring (with queen below) and let them raise the larvae and then let them fill the empty cells with spring honey.
Many do it this way.

What month are you adding the QE ? out of interest .

 

[Beefriendly]

Depends on the type of spring and what is going on in the hive. April would be a sort of average...Late March if the weathers is set fair.

 

[Poly Hive]

The insulation above idea was researched by B. Mobus at Craibstone where there had been historically a lot of wintering research as the College (then NOSCA) covered the area from Dundee to Shetland.

Bernard discovered and trialled open mesh floors coupled with top insulation. It was interesting to see how he cautiously started with a couple of holes at the rear of the floor and then went to until it was an OMF as we know it today. Jaffries had also done a lot of wintering research including opening colonies through out the winter and taking weights and temperatures of the clusters and stores. Bernard built on that work.

Unfortunately when Craibstone was closed by NOSCA the College dumped all the bee material they had and seemingly have also lost the original slides of Acarine which was discovered there at Craibstone by Rennie.

PH