New Beekeeper in 2024!

[Murox]

What is interesting me is what effect on the efficiency of the colony/super-organism, whenever bees of different ages/gland development are induced away from the area in the nest where they were carrying out the tasks appropriate to their age, and induced to fill up with honey, because of smoke/opening the hive triggering an old instinct to prepare for repairing damage to their nest caused by fire or attack by a predator (today, by a beekeeper).

posters on this thread seem unconcerned by this - or simply not thinking about it.

Isn't the 'efficiency' of a hive always disrupted when we open a hive either with or without the use of smoke? Once we start moving frames around we have already upset their environment. At least new keepers are taught (I think) to place frames carefully back in the same order.
I suspect that most do not think about the effect smoke may have on the efficiency of a colony, I think for most its more a matter of control and subjugating bees and nature.

 

[rossbyjove]

and her article seems to endorse that.
so is 'Scottish expert beemaster' just a 'master' beekeeper in a plaid skirt?

Usually have spilled porridge on it as well

 

[Robert1980]

Ann’s own article - and the South `African one - move us forward. Are we mostly now agreed with the following?
1. Honey bees have an evolved response to smoke that makes them fill their honey stomachs, then to await the arrival of a forest fire and then to use the honey in their stomachs to-rebuild any damaged comb;
2. Honey bees have lived in tree cavities in British forests since the last ice age, 18,000years ago - during which forest fires will have been rare (until humans have now initiated climate change) - but have retained the instinctive response to smoke;
3. Beekeepers subject hives to smoke to initiate a secondary response that bees with filled stomachs are less inclined to resist interference by stinging;
4. No information is available on how long bees retain filled stomachs - or, on how much/ how long, smoked bees of different ages with different glands inaction are distracted from their appropriate tasks, ie on feeding brood, or producing wax, or flying out to forage - that period could be quite long, counting flyers leaving the entrance before and after smoking would be easy, has anyone done that?
5. Ann refers to smoke as dangerous for beekeepers as the fine particles can enter lungs - also that smoke can affect the taste of honey - and that many beekeepers prefer to use water spray (spray will clear bees off top bars so no bees can fly off unless and until frames are lifted out, although guards can still fly from hive entrances);

I am a convinced water sprayer. Works for me. Avoids danger of accidents - and of smoker going out just when needed.
Anyone agree?

Absolutely agree, water spray every time. Anyway how can bees fly when you have just singed the wings off

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Anyway how can bees fly when you have just singed the wings off

only an idiot would have flames spouting out of the smoker
Only an idiot would think that smoke would singe a bee's wings

 

[Curly green finger's]

Absolutely agree, water spray every time. Anyway how can bees fly when you have just singed the wings off

I really don’t think water moves bees of the frames like smoke , that’s not what I’ve found water is good when you have a huge active colony mainly to stop fliers or if you are shaking bees from frames to put in a tub to add to mini nucs other than that I only use smoke when I need to not straight away before you inspect mainly to move bees of the top bars .

So they both have there uses imo but just at different times.

I don’t think I’ve ever singed bees wings if your smoker is set up right that shouldn’t happen .

 

[Robert1980]

My bees are managed with just water, and I have a smoker on standby, Nitrile gloves and a jacket; my bees are happy, and so am I; it's all about where you get your queens & beekeeping style I think.

 

[Robert1980]

only an idiot would have flames spouting out of the smoker
Only an idiot would think that smoke would singe a bee's wings

Why the aggression ? your view or no view ! A BBKA supporter most likely

 

[Curly green finger's]

My bees are managed with just water, and I have a smoker on standby, Nitrile gloves and a jacket; my bees are happy, and so am I; it's all about where you get your queens & beekeeping style I think.

Well thats good to know if your happy with your beekeeping style and your bees are happy then that’s all that matters, but my post above still stands from my experience.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Why the aggression ? your view or no view ! A BBKA supporter most likely

it was an appropriate reply to a ridiculous assertion (a bit like the second part of your latest comment as well)

 

[Moobee]

Absolutely agree, water spray every time. Anyway how can bees fly when you have just singed the wings off

You don’t, stuff a wad of grass in the top of the smoker & you get nice cool smoke.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

You don’t, stuff a wad of grass in the top of the smoker & you get nice cool smoke.

you don't get blistering hot air or flames spouting out of the nozzle if you don't put grass on top - unless you use petrol as smoker fuel

 

[Curly green finger's]

You don’t, stuff a wad of grass in the top of the smoker & you get nice cool smoke.

I agree I use grass in the top of my smoker usually after refuelling or when it’s getting really hot stops any sparks and does cool the smoke down I also like to use damn bark/chip on the top.
Most of the time though the smoker gets left on top of the first hive and doesn’t get used it’s a bit of a walk to go back to hive 1 when your inspecting hive 34

 

[Robert1980]

you don't get blistering hot air or flames spouting out of the nozzle if you don't put grass on top - unless you use petrol as smoker fuel

Are you just an idiot looking for a village ?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Are you just an idiot looking for a village ?

obviously the post in yours is taken

 

[JamezF]

To be fair, if the smoker is blisteringly hot you don't tend to get many bees flying up to try to attack you.

James

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

To be fair, if the smoker is blisteringly hot you don't tend to get many bees flying up to try to attack you.

James

.... and your hands are too busy blistering for you to care

 

[Curly green finger's]

Ideally have your fuel burning slowly as possible so it doesn’t get to that point of shooting out flames or not being able to hold your smoker without welders gloves

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The thing is, some people are so fixated on dousing their bees with smoke/water/whatever they have given up on thinking whether it is needed before inspecting, rather than it being (as should be) something sat next to the hive to be used occasionally if needed - whether that be to gently move the bees off the lugs when inspecting, push them down of the top bars when closing up etc. And not as a weapon which many think it should be used as.
I think it's been amply demonstrated on this thread that thinking and beekeeping seem to occupy two entirely separate worlds.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Are you just an idiot looking for a village ?

obviously the post in yours is taken

I’ll leave this because it made me laugh and heaven knows we need some humour but let that be the end of it. Please.

 

[Curly green finger's]

The thing is, some people are so fixated on dousing their bees with smoke/water/whatever they have given up on thinking whether it is needed before inspecting, rather than it beings (as should be) something sat next to the hive to be used occasionally if needed - whether that be to gently move the bees off the lugs when inspecting, push them down of the top bars when closing up etc. And not as a weapon which many think it should be used as.
I think it's been amply demonstrated on this thread that thinking and beekeeping seem to occupy two entirely separate worlds.

I couldn’t agree more and this is my thinking when I started it wasn’t but I didn’t know any different.
open up first and see if you need the smoker none of this lift the cb and smoke straight away or worse smoke them through the entrance or both before you inspect .

Inspections without smoking the bees can be very pleasurable indeed and as I said earlier there’s a time and a place for smoke or water.