Winter OA Trickling

[StephenT]

Looking for a broodless period or the nearest to it. If the bees are still quite active and bringing in pollen does that suggest that they are still raising brood? Is the best way to put in an inspection board and look out for a lack of brood cappings? Can’t rely on a prolonged cold spell here in London which I guess would have to be before the days start to lengthen again.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Looking for a broodless period or the nearest to it. If the bees are still quite active and bringing in pollen does that suggest that they are still raising brood?

Not necessarily - my colonies usually have a brood break mid to late August - they still work as hard as ever. It's another myth that bees only bring in pollen when there's brood I'm afraid.
The usual time to find no brood in the colony is mid to late December apparently. Temperature has very little to do with it - they will start brooding in earnest from January onwards regardless of weather.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Looking for a broodless period or the nearest to it. If the bees are still quite active and bringing in pollen does that suggest that they are still raising brood?

Not necessarily
The only way to be certain is to look

 

[Erichalfbee]

JBM snap!

 

[Angry_Mob]

Have a read of: Convenience or laziness? - The Apiarist

Seems to be typically mid December; many treat between Christmas and the new year which would appear to be too late. Pollen gathering or lack of isn't an accurate indication.

 

[pargyle]

Or better still ... forget the trickling and get kitted up and do them with OA by sublimation. I've never seen the real benefit to opening them up in mid winter and pouring syrup containg OA over them .. I can't think that having to lick off all that syrup ajnd ingesting OA does them a lot of good and if there is any opn brood in there they are a goner ...

For what a vapouriser costs - it's a no brainer ...

 

[Ian123]

Hi Stephen your not far from me. I find best time to bleach your hives Xmas/first week in jan break period. Often I find brood rearing has continued into December with some late flowering ivy. This year as last ivy has been a wash out. l checked a good number last weekend with varying results at different locations, but the majority have bias and plenty of recently laid eggs. Half in 1 location are already broodless. As jenks said temperatures are rather irrelevant. Ian

 

[Mabee]

The most recent ‘Apiarist’ blog was about this very topic...
https://www.theapiarist.org/oxalic-acid-api-bioxal-preparation/

 

[The Poot]

Pargyle has nailed it in one.

 

[pargyle]

Have a read of: Convenience or laziness? - The Apiarist

Seems to be typically mid December; many treat between Christmas and the new year which would appear to be too late. Pollen gathering or lack of isn't an accurate indication.

I generally like his blog but there are a couple of things that give me concern .. His graphs showing mite explosion are based on modelling ... Modelling is to a greater extent subjective and based on limited assumptions. Nature has a habit of flying in the face of modelling ...

Secondly, he spends a great deal of effort elucidating how, why and when to trickle OA - but he has discarded this type of treatment in favour of sublimating. ... why waste all that wordage on yesterday's news ?

 

[Parsonage Bees]

Listened to an American podcast the other day. There was a suggestion that colony would be broodless 2 weeks after the first good frost. Something you probably don't get in London. ?

Normally OAD mine mid-December. I've never checked that mine are broodless but might have a look at one I can afford to lose/handicap this year on a warmer day.

Don't want to vapourise as don't like the risks to me. And OAD is v. cheap.

. . .. Ben

 

[StephenT]

Thanks all. I’ll do it around mid to end of Dec and this time and will look at getting a vaporiser. Now I’ve got three hives it’s worth the investment. Just have to ponder which OA vaporiser to get now.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Listened to an American podcast the other day. There was a suggestion that colony would be broodless 2 weeks after the first good frost.

Just that though - a suggestion.
I suggest a lot of things to SWMBO but very few go past that stage

 

[Parsonage Bees]

Just that though - a suggestion.
I suggest a lot of things to SWMBO but very few go past that stage

Late November/early December, hard frost. The colony goes "Brrrrrr!" and cannibalizes the open brood (apparently) and then 2 weeks for sealed brood to emerge. Broodless colony. ?

No? Still not convinced? If only things were that logical.

 

[polomadh]

I once saw a National Honey Show lecture video that was delivered perfectly by the speaker. Unfortunately I’ve not been able to find it again, and I would be grateful if anyone could find it and send the link.

The speaker presented studies that had put hives in increasingly cold refrigerators, to ridiculously low temps, but they stubbornly kept raising brood. The studies indicate that brood break is not temp related, so unlikely to react to slight frost

 

[Erichalfbee]

I once saw a National Honey Show lecture video that was delivered perfectly by the speaker. Unfortunately I’ve not been able to find it again, and I would be grateful if anyone could find it and send the link.

The speaker presented studies that had put hives in increasingly cold refrigerators, to ridiculously low temps, but they stubbornly kept raising brood. The studies indicate that brood break is not temp related, so unlikely to react to slight frost

Yes because the bees keep the brood nest warm. They don’t eat it.

 

[seillean mil]

.. His graphs showing mite explosion are based on modelling ..

I saw that yesterday and asked him a question about the reality of that mite-load, given that there are beekeeping practises and natural events which will tend to interrupt the modelled mite "explosion". He has replied conscientiously to everything before and after my question and has studiously ignored it.


https://www.theapiarist.org/oxalic-acid-api-bioxal-preparation/

***UPDATE***. My question has now been given a comprehensive reply, for which I am grateful. It's a scary answer and amongst other things he stresses that the viruses, carried by mites, are a large part of the problem.

 

[masterBK]

I would suggest that the reduction in laying leading to a winter brood break around the end of november /beginning of december in my part of the UK is influenced by the reduction in day length with perhaps a threshold that triggers it (which probably varies between HB strains ). I also suggest that the recommencement of egg laying in january is related to increasing day length. Daylength is an important factor in the life of many plants and animals particularly aspects of their reproductive cycle.

 

[beeno]

I needed to treat one colony OA dribble that was left out of my normal treatment schedule. Checked for sealed brood on Wednesday, 10 sealed cells, so I treated. Drop of 200+ after 36hrs. My colonies start brood rearing at the very end of February in a "normal" year. We had an other thread on day length recently and the general concensus IMHO was that it had more to do with temperature rather than day length per se.

 

[P6TE]

Remember that trickling OA kills any open brood that may be present, I am looking at using a Gas Vap and treating from the top using a modified crown board. The crown board has around a 25mm spacing above the frames with a hole drilled in one side into which the gas vap is inserted. The vapour enters from above and decends through the combs (rather than trying to rise up from below) If you look on YouTube at a lot of professional beekeepers they don’t fully seal hives when treating so I’ll be trying that this year and checking for mite drop.