Winter feeding

[ABeeKeeperCalledSimon]

Hello,
I was looking for recommendations of what to feed the bees over the winter and when, this is my first winter with the bees, and I am planning on leaving them with a full super of honey, but how quickly will they consume this and then need additional feed. And what to give them?
There are also loads of supplements available wondered what the best one to use was or if they are needed at all?

thanks for any help

 

[user 819]

What hive type , Insulated, wood with insulated roof or just plain wood ?

If leaving a super then make sure no QX is left on so the Queen can move up with the bee, generally though it isn't necessary to leave a super. They should store food in the brood box and about 35/ 40lbs should be enough or 7 - 8 national deep frames to see them through From November to March/April.

Till end of October one can feed or later if mild one can simply feed 2.1 sugar syrup or plonk fondant on instead, supplement wise don't bother as they are mainly snake oil products for the gullible to buy.
Alternately one can simply leave an empty eke above the BB and leave a 12.5kg slab of wrapped fondant above the top bars.

Some areas ivy is a valuable autumn forage source and bees again will keep on it if mild in to November if still in flower, my bees tend to do well and an extra 10lbs or so of stores can be collected to boost that which is already in the hive.

 

[user 819]

Before deciding carrying out extra feeding one can roughly calculate available stores during Sept by adding up all the stores thus far in the hive. Add all part stores on frames to come to an accumulated amount and then feed the difference to achieve 35/40lbs + of stores.
An example; a National hive one can allow 2.25 - 2.5lbs for each side of a deep frame or 3.25 - 3.5lbs for 14 x 12, a shallow frame (super) 1.2lbs per side.

If deciding to give extra feed don't do so to early as one wants space for the winter bees to be raised, if feeding do so once varroa treatment has finished.
If the colony is prepped with good stores by late Oct early Nov, then there is no need to give extra feed unless they are greedy bees or in a cold draughty hive.

Once fed heft the hive with two fingers and gauge how heavy/hard it is to lift the rear a cm or two, then as you go through winter into spring one can use that to gauge if the colony is getting lighter.
With some experience one will get to know how frugal or not your bees might be.

 

[Levitt53]

Bare in mind how much ivy is around. I find mine pack in enough ivy nectar and I don't need to feed them. They are in poly hives and to be honest are normally fairly honey bound in spring I'm rushing to put foundation in to give them some space.

 

[gmonag]

I had no idea there were so many different ways to feed fondant;

You can slap some on...
whack some on..
or plonk some on...

or just add some.

 

[Curly green finger's]

I had no idea there were so many different ways to feed fondant;

You can slap some on...
whack some on..
or plonk some on...

or just add some.

 

[user 819]

Later on in Autumn you will know when the ivy is being foraged as the hive and area around it will reek of ivy aroma, quite a pungent aroma you can't miss. An aroma I find quite pleasing to my senses, but more so that the bees are on it. Meaning I have little to worry about deciding if they need feed.

 

[madasafish]

As the OP has no location, they may be in a location where ivy flowers in December and is inaccessible to bees.

 

[ABeeKeeperCalledSimon]

Thanks for all the advice, I have a standard national with a half broodbox on top, I was going to buy the insulation wrap from Thorne for the winter. We live in the countryside so lots of ivy which will help for sure if mild, thanks all

 

[Erichalfbee]

As the OP has no location, they may be in a location where ivy flowers in December and is inaccessible to bees.

Bristol

 

[Apiarist]

Bare in mind how much ivy is around. I find mine pack in enough ivy nectar and I don't need to feed them. They are in poly hives and to be honest are normally fairly honey bound in spring I'm rushing to put foundation in to give them some space.

Your Ivy Honey must be different than ours.
As one beek said, Ivy Nectar crystallizes in their mouths before they get back to the hive!
I've lost hives due to this, so I now make sure that the hives have enough winter store before the Ivy Flow begins OR I make sure I am feeding as much syrup as they'll take down to prevent them surrounding themselves with Ivy Honey, otherwise they'll starve while surrounded by rock hard Ivy Honey.

I've actually seen frames 1, 2, 10 and 11 with lovely capped honey, and frames 3, 4, 8 and 9 with crystallized Ivy Honey, and a starved dead hive in the middle, ... they didn't cross the two ivy frames, another lessen I learned, keep the Inspection Tray IN the Varroa Mesh Floor.

 

[Swarm]

Never had a problem with Ivy.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Your Ivy Honey must be different than ours.
As one beek said, Ivy Nectar crystallizes in their mouths before they get back to the hive!
I've lost hives due to this, so I now make sure that the hives have enough winter store before the Ivy Flow begins OR I make sure I am feeding as much syrup as they'll take down to prevent them surrounding themselves with Ivy Honey, otherwise they'll starve while surrounded by rock hard Ivy Honey.

I've actually seen frames 1, 2, 10 and 11 with lovely capped honey, and frames 3, 4, 8 and 9 with crystallized Ivy Honey, and a starved dead hive in the middle, ... they didn't cross the two ivy frames, another lessen I learned, keep the Inspection Tray IN the Varroa Mesh Floor.

I’ve never seen a problem with Ivy stores but on the other hand I never get a box full. It’s always been mixed with late summer blossom and syrup.

 

[Ian123]

Your Ivy Honey must be different than ours.
As one beek said, Ivy Nectar crystallizes in their mouths before they get back to the hive!
I've lost hives due to this, so I now make sure that the hives have enough winter store before the Ivy Flow begins OR I make sure I am feeding as much syrup as they'll take down to prevent them surrounding themselves with Ivy Honey, otherwise they'll starve while surrounded by rock hard Ivy Honey.

I've actually seen frames 1, 2, 10 and 11 with lovely capped honey, and frames 3, 4, 8 and 9 with crystallized Ivy Honey, and a starved dead hive in the middle, ... they didn't cross the two ivy frames, another lessen I learned, keep the Inspection Tray IN the Varroa Mesh Floor.

We get loads of ivy and never had an issue, in good years hives can literally be nailed to the floor with it and produce a small crop. Realistically set ivy is no different to say fondant and bees readily use this during the winter with no issues. Over the years I’ve wintered late cut outs/removals and mini Nucs pretty much only on Candy/fondant with no issues. Ivy is an amazing source of late pollen weather permitting in my area, producing into December. Hives/Nucs benefiting from ivy show a marked size difference in spring compared to sites with little available. Ian

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

We get loads of ivy and never had an issue, in good years hives can literally be nailed to the floor with it and produce a small crop. Realistically set ivy is no different to say fondant and bees readily use this during the winter with no issues. Over the years I’ve wintered late cut outs/removals and mini Nucs pretty much only on Candy/fondant with no issues. Ivy is an amazing source of late pollen weather permitting in my area, producing into December. Hives/Nucs benefiting from ivy show a marked size difference in spring compared to sites with little available. Ian

never had issues with ivy honey. It's just another myth perpetuated by a few who probably couldn't bebothered to look further to find out the real problem

 

[Hebeegeebee]

"Till end of October one can feed or later if mild" Maybe in the south, but not all over the country. Should plan to complete feeding by the end of September in most parts; no need to leave it any later.

 

[Apiarist]

You beeks must have different Ivy than us???
It's notorious here in NI (and RoI), I doubted it at first, but when I saw two dead hives and remebered the crystallization at the bottom of the cell before the cell was even a third full I realised the older beeks were right.
HOWEVER I have carried out personal amateur experiments; hives which are being feed when the Ivy flow is on, do not have a problem with crystallized stores, those that are not being feed will get crystallized stores; it is rock hard, they cannot eat it, I see it being dumped outside the hive in the spring, but takes them forever to clean out the comb.

 

[Apiarist]

...It’s always been mixed with late summer blossom and syrup.

late summer blossom, the Ivy must flower very early for you, where my hives are it's the last crop available.

 

[Erichalfbee]

late summer blossom, the Ivy must flower very early for you, where my hives are it's the last crop available.

Well I don't extract honey from the broods so whatever they have collected there through the year is mixed with the ivy? They uncap and move stores around all the time.

 

[user 20297]

late summer blossom, the Ivy must flower very early for you, where my hives are it's the last crop available.

Where I am it flowered in December...no use to my bees.