winter deadout

[jenkinsbrynmair]

but I am suspecting poisoning

why? have you argued with your neighbours?

 

[JamezF]

This colony is in a quite urban environment and wondered if anyone had experience of roundup or similar pest control products on their bees.

Interesting reading here. I'd not be surprised if farmers around me were using glyphosate on occasion. I'll try to remember to ask someone who might know next time I see them.

James

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

wondered if anyone had experience of roundup or similar pest control products on their bees.

Roundup doesn't kill colonies - it's a herbicide not an insecticide. I've sprayed it right up to the hives before now and it's had no effect on the bees.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Perhaps this could be the reason , but not sure where they might have caught it . The hive does stand next to another split that seems to be ok so far . and seen a lot of pollen going in . Mid Feb. east Sussex coast

Paralysis virus appears clinically out of the blue. I had it a few years ago then again last year. I know exactly what to look for now but the first instance caught me out. I have 9 hives all in a line. All the rest were fine. I managed to save them so far.

 

[hemo]

CBPV may well be stressed related and varroa may have a role to play in this, I lost a colony after my varroa control last Autumn. Then a few weeks later I noticed the hive was all but void of bees bar approx. 1k & this was a DB colony with 5 supers at one stage, I found the colony after clearing/tidying the brambles towards the front of the hive in mid November. The largest pile of decaying bees I have seen, prior to this I saw no signs that said CBPV. None of the bees climbing stems, shaking or shiny bees.

 

[ericbeaumont]

experience of roundup or similar pest control products on their bees.

I've kept urban bees for about 12 years and am aware that councils spray glyphosate and that any garden centre sells it, and it is implicated in bee loss - directly by killing essential bee gut bacteria and damaging bee navigation, and indirectly by the blocking by surfactants of tracheal passages essential for gas exchange - but poisoning is rare these days.

 

[bruce.elliott]

why? have you argued with your neighbours?

no , I don't think I've upset anyone yet . but on reading the bad effects of a common house hold pesticide (round up ) has on bee health , I thought how well it fitted with the circumstances . Was just a thought.

 

[bruce.elliott]

I've kept urban bees for about 12 years and am aware that councils spray glyphosate and that any garden centre sells it, and it is implicated in bee loss - directly by killing essential bee gut bacteria and damaging bee navigation, and indirectly by the blocking by surfactants of tracheal passages essential for gas exchange - but poisoning is rare these days.

I was reading an article recently , that doubted that glyphosate was the major cause of bee mortality but the surfactants used in round up were.
and the mortality was high.

 

[bruce.elliott]

CBPV may well be stressed related and varroa may have a role to play in this, I lost a colony after my varroa control last Autumn. Then a few weeks later I noticed the hive was all but void of bees bar approx. 1k & this was a DB colony with 5 supers at one stage, I found the colony after clearing/tidying the brambles towards the front of the hive in mid November. The largest pile of decaying bees I have seen, prior to this I saw no signs that said CBPV. None of the bees climbing stems, shaking or shiny bees.

that is very interesting as the suddenness of the disease gets me , and that some do survive yet not enough to be viable .
I've also heard CBPV is hard to diagnose , can you be sure this was the cause of your loss , or an educated guess ?

 

[bruce.elliott]

Paralysis virus appears clinically out of the blue. I had it a few years ago then again last year. I know exactly what to look for now but the first instance caught me out. I have 9 hives all in a line. All the rest were fine. I managed to save them so far.

there seems to be several possible candidates in this case . though the frames in my photo's are the worst , there are many that don't have such mould and the honey super is perfect . but until I can be sure there isn't disease or poison in the pollen or honey , I am reluctant to donate or use in any split this year . did you use any of your deadout resources or start from fresh ?

 

[bruce.elliott]

Very rarely is poisoning a factor but it is the easiest label to apply to a colony when one doesn't know why.

You are right, I am at a loss to know why this happened and would like to get a definitive answer . my suspicions of poisoning were aroused when I remembered seeing an old lady spraying the wild flowers on the verge 150 metres from the bees ( don't know what was being sprayed ) back in the summer.
I have now looked into the chances of poisoning ,and although the report I read was talking about round up and bumble mortality. I've put link below. copy and paste
https://besjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1365-2664.13867

 

[bruce.elliott]

Roundup doesn't kill colonies - it's a herbicide not an insecticide. I've sprayed it right up to the hives before now and it's had no effect on the bees.

I realise I'm clutching at straws , but when you read articles ,such as in the link below , it starts to look as likely as several other options .
I think if you want to see the article copy and paste in address bar.

https://besjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1365-2664.13867

 

[Erichalfbee]

there seems to be several possible candidates in this case . though the frames in my photo's are the worst , there are many that don't have such mould and the honey super is perfect . but until I can be sure there isn't disease or poison in the pollen or honey , I am reluctant to donate or use in any split this year . did you use any of your deadout resources or start from fresh ?

No. I threw the lot.
The one surviving hive has the frames marked so they don't get moved anywhere else.
CBPV is actually fairly easy to diagnose. Bees shake on the frames and lots of them have dislocated wings. I always look for it rather than waiting for piles of dead bees to appear

 

[Boston Bees]

I realise I'm clutching at straws , but when you read articles ,such as in the link below , it starts to look as likely as several other options .
I think if you want to see the article copy and paste in address bar.

https://besjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1365-2664.13867

There's almost no point trying to work out what this colony died of. It's been dead for too long (due to it being winter), the evidence has gone mouldy and rotten. You could read every article on the internet and be no wiser. It's like trying to solve a murder when the body has been in a muddy ditch for 6 months, there are no witnesses, and you aren't allowed to do an autopsy.

Personally, a colony-killing poisoning event is always the last thing I suspect because we are lucky that it is very rare in this country - we don't have crop-spraying aircraft flying over our apiaries like they do in the US, for one thing. But who knows.

The only thing you can be certain of is that they didn't die of starvation.

Just in case it was something nasty the advice would be, as said above, to destroy the brood frames at least, and treat the others with suspicion (and disinfect the hive itself). Move on, get some more bees in spring, and go again.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

on reading the bad effects of a common house hold pesticide (round up ) has on bee health , I thought how well it fitted with the circumstances

much of it is hyped up and over exaggerated by those who love to spend their time wringing their hands.
I live in an area blighted by Japanese knotweed and Himalayan balsam so we have gluphosate being splashed around like aftershave on a teenager's first date. I know beekeepers who have their apiaries slap bang in the middle of riverside problem areas for both weeds. Noone has ever reported cases of colony poisoning.

 

[BeeGiner]

Hi Bruce,
I suspect the problem is almost certainly Varroa related, either directly or indirectly.
What Varroa treatment regime did you use?

 

[Hebeegeebee]

If one colony is OK and the other isn't, the chances are that it's not poisoning. With poisoning, you could well see 'dying fly' symptoms of bees outside the hive entrance.
I am not sure if acarine appears nowadays if someone hasn't used thymol for a few years.
If it's not acarine, then it's most likely CBPV which can affect a random hive out of many.

 

[hemo]

that is very interesting as the suddenness of the disease gets me , and that some do survive yet not enough to be viable .
I've also heard CBPV is hard to diagnose , can you be sure this was the cause of your loss , or an educated guess ?

Only educated as the short time space it happened and prior I hadn't noticed any of the effects on bees, though being later in the season I would have not noticed anything unusual as once the supers are off and varroa control starts I tend to let them alone.

 

[BeeGiner]

“poisoning” is an attractive cause to attach to the loss of a colony. It means the beekeeper can put the blame elsewhere without examining what they may have, or not have, done to contribute to the loss.

 

[Boston Bees]

“poisoning” is an attractive cause to attach to the loss of a colony. It means the beekeeper can put the blame elsewhere without examining what they may have, or not have, done to contribute to the loss.

We were all being too polite to say this