winter deadout

[bruce.elliott]

hi guys my name is Bruce and I am new to this group and a bit of advice here would be helpful ,
after a sudden illness ,that started late August 2021 and though not quite as bad now , is still severely restricting my proper beekeeping abilities .
After seeing no action from the front of the hive and with some help I opened the hive to see an almost full super of capped honey , and then as I went into the brood box , I found about 50 mouldy bees clustered over 2 0r 3 mouldy frames . When the bees were removed they were covering sealed brood .
there was a lot of pollen and honey . I couldn't make out the queen amongst all the mould and decay .
I do remember seeing a lot of bees crawling up plants and walls near the entrance back in August . the colony was a split earlier in the year and was doing really well . I had to go into hospital so unfortunately they missed their varroa fogging . but at least there was a brood break .
My question is , is it safe to use all the resources on another colony ?
and if i upload some pictures could anyone diagnose, , poison , disease , or queen failure for some reason.

 

[Boston Bees]

Good lord, that's been dead a while. Bad luck, and I am sorry about your illness

You have wax moth and (I think) evidence of varroa (though why the colony itself died, I can't say).

Some of those brood cappings look somewhat sunken. But I am not confident in diagnosing anything, given how decayed the bees and brood are. I assume it would be too late to do any kind of "rope test" for AFB etc, though you could try (Google how to do it).

Close the hive up now to stop any robbing. I would destroy any frame with brood in, without a shadow of a doubt, regardless of what any test outcome says. Then properly treat the hive with a blowtorch or, if poly, Cillit Bang Bleach and Hygiene

If you keep any purely-honey frames (which you probably shouldn't) then freeze them for 48 hours to get rid of any wax moth.

More experienced council will follow I am sure.

 

[Erichalfbee]

looks like varroa I agree.
If you have really clean capped stores they are probably ok but to be truthful if that was my ex colony I’d bin the lot and sterilise the box.

 

[bruce.elliott]

Good lord, that's been dead a while. Bad luck, and I am sorry about your illness

You have wax moth and (I think) evidence of varroa (though why the colony itself died, I can't say).

Some of those brood cappings look somewhat sunken. But I am not confident in diagnosing anything, given how decayed the bees and brood are. I assume it would be too late to do any kind of "rope test" for AFB etc, though you could try (Google how to do it).

Close the hive up now to stop any robbing. I would destroy any frame with brood in, without a shadow of a doubt, regardless of what any test outcome says. Then properly treat the hive with a blowtorch or, if poly, Cillit Bang Bleach and Hygiene

More experienced council will follow I am sure.

Hi B . thanks for getting back so Quickly .
to my surprise there is next to no signs of wax moth ,even though the hive has been dead since before Christmas I think .
The only brood is capped and mostly dry some are wet with just the husks remaining . There is loads of pollen and as i say a full super of honey .
Not a single queen cell.

 

[ericbeaumont]

the colony was a split earlier in the year and was doing really well

Was this the queenright half, or the half that had to make a queen, or did you buy one in?

 

[Boston Bees]

Hi B . thanks for getting back so Quickly .
to my surprise there is next to no signs of wax moth ,even though the hive has been dead since before Christmas I think .
The only brood is capped and mostly dry some are wet with just the husks remaining . There is loads of pollen and as i say a full super of honey .
Not a single queen cell.

I guess the winter will supress wax moth to large extent, though I do see a moth larva (I think)

I wouldn't expect a queen cell in winter - just looks like a classic dead-out for a reason like queen failure, varroosis, or (heaven forbid but much less likely) a brood disease

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I do remember seeing a lot of bees crawling up plants and walls near the entrance back in August

explain a bit more, were they struggling to get back to the hive or what?

 

[bruce.elliott]

Was this the queenright half, or the half that had to make a queen, or did you buy one in?

This was a split with a capped queen cell , made earlier in 2021 . I am tending towards poisoning , that probably occurred in August when I witnessed lots of bees struggling to fly and crawling up plants near the entrance . They all looked fine (wings all good ) just couldn't stay airborne

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

This was a split with a capped queen cell , made earlier in 2021 . I am tending towards poisoning , that probably occurred in August when I witnessed lots of bees struggling to fly and crawling up plants near the entrance . They all looked fine (wings all good ) just couldn't stay airborne

not poisoning. As I suspected from your first description. CBPV

 

[bruce.elliott]

explain a bit more, were they struggling to get back to the hive or what?

Over just 2-4 days bees were climbing up plants and a wall next to the entrance . to be quite honest I'm not sure if they were coming or going from the hive and think maybe a bit of both .

 

[Erichalfbee]

This was a split with a capped queen cell , made earlier in 2021 . I am tending towards poisoning , that probably occurred in August when I witnessed lots of bees struggling to fly and crawling up plants near the entrance . They all looked fine (wings all good ) just couldn't stay airborne

Yes sounds like CBPV.
Some beekeepers are happy to reuse frames from infected colonies but personally I wouldn’t
Have a read of what Prof David Evans who researches into CBPV says
https://www.theapiarist.org/aristotles-hairless-black-thieves/

 

[ericbeaumont]

struggling to fly and crawling up plants near the entrance

Sounds like acarine:

adult bees can be seen crawling on the ground or on grass in front of hives of heavily infested colonies. But this evidence may suggest more than a tracheal mite infestation – it may indicate the presence of other diseases.

Acarine is no longer a significant threat as thymol knocked it out of the ring.

 

[ericbeaumont]

a split with a capped queen cell

What was the outcome of the QC?

 

[bruce.elliott]

I guess the winter will supress wax moth to large extent, though I do see a moth larva (I think)

I wouldn't expect a queen cell in winter - just looks like a classic dead-out for a reason like queen failure, varroosis, or (heaven forbid but much less likely) a brood disease

hi , I hope you are correct but I am suspecting poisoning . I wasn't sure if the bees would have attempted an emergency cell , seeing's there was still brood until the end.
I couldn't see any tunnels of wax moths when the combs are held up to the light certainly nothing to worry about and this hive has been unoccupied for weeks by the looks .

 

[bruce.elliott]

Sounds like acarine:

adult bees can be seen crawling on the ground or on grass in front of hives of heavily infested colonies. But this evidence may suggest more than a tracheal mite infestation – it may indicate the presence of other diseases.

Acarine is no longer a significant threat as thymol knocked it out of the ring.

yes I see what you're saying , with the crawling and acarine . but think the large proportion affected over such a short time ruled it out for me ?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Poisoning? Just the one hive?
CBPV is often mistaken for poisoning

 

[hemo]

Very rarely is poisoning a factor but it is the easiest label to apply to a colony when one doesn't know why.

 

[bruce.elliott]

What was the outcome of the QC?

The QC hatched and built the colony up from 4 or5 brood frames to 11 frames full ( 6or 7 foundation ) and a full shallow super of honey ,until their demise .

 

[bruce.elliott]

Very rarely is poisoning a factor but it is the easiest label to apply to a colony when one doesn't know why.

This colony is in a quite urban environment and wondered if anyone had experience of roundup or similar pest control products on their bees.

 

[bruce.elliott]

Poisoning? Just the one hive?
CBPV is often mistaken for poisoning

Perhaps this could be the reason , but not sure where they might have caught it . The hive does stand next to another split that seems to be ok so far . and seen a lot of pollen going in . Mid Feb. east Sussex coast