Will a smallish colony still expand at this time of year?

[Do224]

If a colony is on perhaps seven or eight frames now, are they likely to expand to fill the brood box over the next few weeks….or will they likely already have reached their max size for this year?

 

[ericbeaumont]

Still time to fill the box, but it does depend on whether nectar is coming in (or you feed).

August & September will be dry and that means no nectar (unless you have HB on water).

If you reckon they haven't filled the box during the next month, by all means cram them into a poly nuc.

They'll overwinter better if the box is really full because contact will be maintained at all times with stores, and thermal efficiency is achieved.

 

[elainemary]

If a colony is on perhaps seven or eight frames now, are they likely to expand to fill the brood box over the next few weeks….or will they likely already have reached their max size for this year?

Depends on the age of the queen. If a newly mated queen this season and forage / feed available they will expand. I had one queen that mated in September last year went on to fill a brood box with bees and over wintered very well.

 

[Do224]

Still time to fill the box, but it does depend on whether nectar is coming in (or you feed).

August & September will be dry and that means no nectar (unless you have HB on water).

If you reckon they haven't filled the box during the next month, by all means cram them into a poly nuc.

They'll overwinter better if the box is really full because contact will be maintained at all times with stores, and thermal efficiency is achieved.

There’s a river a few hundred metres away and they’re bringing in HB at present.

My plan is to make a ‘cosy’ out of insulation board to insulate the hives through the winter, much like the ones @Erichalfbee has helpfully posted pictures of in the past

 

[ericbeaumont]

make a ‘cosy’ out of insulation board

What is the existing hive material?

 

[Do224]

What is the existing hive material?

One cedar and two pine hives. Also a plywood nuc

 

[ericbeaumont]

Cedar and poly will overwinter without help. Ply is thermally inefficient.

I've never been tempted to use a cosy; how does moisture or condensation escape?

 

[Sutty]

Cedar and poly will overwinter without help. Ply is thermally inefficient.

I've never been tempted to use a cosy; how does moisture or condensation escape?

You could ask the same question of poly but they seem to overwinter very well in poly.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Cedar and poly will overwinter without help. Ply is thermally inefficient.

I've never been tempted to use a cosy; how does moisture or condensation escape?

Insulation keeps the inner surfaces warm so condensation is minimal. Any that does form runs out of the bottom or the bees use it as a source of water

 

[ericbeaumont]

Insulation keeps the inner surfaces warm

Yes, I get that, but what happens at the joint between wood wall and cosy? Does the joint stay dry or does moisture condense?

 

[Do224]

Yes, I get that, but what happens at the joint between wood wall and cosy? Does the joint stay dry or does moisture condense?

Planning to leave a 1cm air gap…I guess it’ll stay dry enough. Probably drier than with no cosy at all

 

[ericbeaumont]

I understand; like a WBC.

 

[madasafish]

Cedar and poly will overwinter without help. Ply is thermally inefficient.

I've never been tempted to use a cosy; how does moisture or condensation escape?

All my wooden hives are in cosies: moisture escapes through entrances and OMFs. There is of course no condensation visible to the naked eye.

 

[Do224]

All my wooden hives are in cosies: moisture escapes through entrances and OMFs. There is of course no condensation visible to the naked eye.

A couple of mine are on solid floors. Will the cosy idea still be ok? I’m putting extra insulation on the roof (150mm compared to 50mm for the walls) so I think this will prevent condensation above the bees.

@Erichalfbee I think I vaguely remember some/all of yours were on solid floors but I could be mis-remembering?

 

[markyfive]

There’s a river a few hundred metres away and they’re bringing in HB at present.

My plan is to make a ‘cosy’ out of insulation board to insulate the hives through the winter, much like the ones @Erichalfbee has helpfully posted pictures of in the past

I used home made cosies on unpainted pine boxes last winter with great results.

just like you I had one small colony I was going to polynuc as I had serious doubts as to their ability to survive in a 14 x 12 box. I took the
decision after researching posts on this forum to make some cosies along with insulated roofs and insulated feeding ekes.
Although being a bit time consuming, it really worked well...the small colony's spring growth was amazing and it became my best producing
colony this year! I obviously can't attribute this all to having a cosy on, as I'm sure there are other contributing factors, but I'm convinced it helped

I had no issues with interstitial condensation and no signs of mildew or staining on the untreated (a result of running around like a headless chicken in my first year!) timber.( just to clarify, it's been pretty much the same this year!!). I do use under floor entrances with open metal floors and this is probably enough to deal with any excess humidity. It was fascinating to lift the roof off and feel the warmth on the eke feeding hole cover even on the coldest days....this heat would normally escape through the uninsulated roof

On providing an air gap....unless the air gap is completely sealed, the insulation is pretty much a waste of time as you will get a phenonenon called convective looping which will significantly reduce the effectiveness of the insulation to a point where you may as well not have bothered!

I made cosies from 25mm PIR rigid foam boards and bonded it to 3mm correx type sheets....warm and weather/windproof and overall pretty inexpensive materials wise. A couple of cheap straps to hold in place and it stayed like that until inspection time came around in the spring. Overall, as you can probably tell, I'm pretty much sold on the hive cosy idea....Not sure I'd feel the same if I had a significant number of hives though.

 

[Erichalfbee]

A couple of mine are on solid floors. Will the cosy idea still be ok? I’m putting extra insulation on the roof (150mm compared to 50mm for the walls) so I think this will prevent condensation above the bees.

@Erichalfbee I think I vaguely remember some/all of yours were on solid floors but I could be mis-remembering?

Yes. I have two wooden broods and one poly on solid UFE.

 

[user 20297]

I used home made cosies on unpainted pine boxes last winter with great results.

just like you I had one small colony I was going to polynuc as I had serious doubts as to their ability to survive in a 14 x 12 box. I took the
decision after researching posts on this forum to make some cosies along with insulated roofs and insulated feeding ekes.
Although being a bit time consuming, it really worked well...the small colony's spring growth was amazing and it became my best producing
colony this year! I obviously can't attribute this all to having a cosy on, as I'm sure there are other contributing factors, but I'm convinced it helped

I had no issues with interstitial condensation and no signs of mildew or staining on the untreated (a result of running around like a headless chicken in my first year!) timber.( just to clarify, it's been pretty much the same this year!!). I do use under floor entrances with open metal floors and this is probably enough to deal with any excess humidity. It was fascinating to lift the roof off and feel the warmth on the eke feeding hole cover even on the coldest days....this heat would normally escape through the uninsulated roof

On providing an air gap....unless the air gap is completely sealed, the insulation is pretty much a waste of time as you will get a phenonenon called convective looping which will significantly reduce the effectiveness of the insulation to a point where you may as well not have bothered!

I made cosies from 25mm PIR rigid foam boards and bonded it to 3mm correx type sheets....warm and weather/windproof and overall pretty inexpensive materials wise. A couple of cheap straps to hold in place and it stayed like that until inspection time came around in the spring. Overall, as you can probably tell, I'm pretty much sold on the hive cosy idea....Not sure I'd feel the same if I had a significant number of hives though.

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I've made similar, insulated sleeves and had the same, positive results as you. Mine were 450mm deep and with a removable roof. But with an increase in number of hives and because the removable lid seemed a pointless complication, I've cut them in half in order to double my stock, and fixed them with a permanent lid. So now, they're effectively just very well insulated, very deep roofs which replace the standard roof. They now only cover the top two-thirds of a deep box. As I intend to overwinter on one box this winter, it's a compromise that I think will work out OK.

 

[Do224]

I used home made cosies on unpainted pine boxes last winter with great results.

just like you I had one small colony I was going to polynuc as I had serious doubts as to their ability to survive in a 14 x 12 box. I took the
decision after researching posts on this forum to make some cosies along with insulated roofs and insulated feeding ekes.
Although being a bit time consuming, it really worked well...the small colony's spring growth was amazing and it became my best producing
colony this year! I obviously can't attribute this all to having a cosy on, as I'm sure there are other contributing factors, but I'm convinced it helped

I had no issues with interstitial condensation and no signs of mildew or staining on the untreated (a result of running around like a headless chicken in my first year!) timber.( just to clarify, it's been pretty much the same this year!!). I do use under floor entrances with open metal floors and this is probably enough to deal with any excess humidity. It was fascinating to lift the roof off and feel the warmth on the eke feeding hole cover even on the coldest days....this heat would normally escape through the uninsulated roof

On providing an air gap....unless the air gap is completely sealed, the insulation is pretty much a waste of time as you will get a phenonenon called convective looping which will significantly reduce the effectiveness of the insulation to a point where you may as well not have bothered!

I made cosies from 25mm PIR rigid foam boards and bonded it to 3mm correx type sheets....warm and weather/windproof and overall pretty inexpensive materials wise. A couple of cheap straps to hold in place and it stayed like that until inspection time came around in the spring. Overall, as you can probably tell, I'm pretty much sold on the hive cosy idea....Not sure I'd feel the same if I had a significant number of hives though.

View attachment 33431View attachment 33432View attachment 33434View attachment 33435View attachment 33436

Thanks for the comments and pics. Really like your design and pleased to hear it’s doing the trick.

I’ve made a prototype today and am pretty happy with it. I need the 1cm air gap all around to prevent it getting stuck.

I’m no engineer but I’d be very surprised if the whole thing is worthless because of the air gap as you suggest…in fact don’t they recommend leaving an air gap when you install it in houses? Or is it specifically that it’s open at the bottom that you think will cause an issue? Isn’t this just the same principle as a hot air balloon and the warm air will remain in the void as it will rise? If the insulation was touching the hive body wouldn’t you lose heat through thermal bridging?

As I say I’m no engineer…at the very least it should stop the wind sapping the heat from the hive…

Just need to spray paint it black.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I’ve made a prototype today and am pretty happy with it. I need the 1cm air gap all around to prevent it getting stuck.

That’s how mine are set up. I went with what @derekm had posted. I’ll see if I can find the thread.

 

[markyfive]

I've made similar, insulated sleeves and had the same, positive results as you. Mine were 450mm deep and with a removable roof. But with an increase in number of hives and because the removable lid seemed a pointless complication, I've cut them in half in order to double my stock, and fixed them with a permanent lid. So now, they're effectively just very well insulated, very deep roofs which replace the standard roof. They now only cover the top two-thirds of a deep box. As I intend to overwinter on one box this winter, it's a compromise that I think will work out OK.

I know what you mean about the increase in number of hives, I've gone from four to ten this year with the obvious increase in work, storage etc.

Roof insulation is the most important as you suggest. h

How do you feed, do you just list off the entire sleeve?