Why say NO to doing a course?

[region2]

How come so many new, or relatively new, beekeepers seem reluctant to go on a course? I met someone the other day with no experience whatsoever who had just got bees. Obviously that's one way to learn but surely we should be encouraging newbees to get some educashun before they buy a colony?

And then there's the 3 or 4 year beekeepers who also seem reluctant to even do the BASIC - is there something about the marketing or syllabus of this course that puts people off?

R2

 

[mbc]

Many people, myself included, have had a gutsfull of formal education, set syllabus', exams etc. and are wary of commities, associations and self important know-it-alls who tend to come to the fore in local bka's

 

[Chris B]

Courses aren't everyones cup of tea. To begin with I reckon it's more important to get confidence handling bees under supervision. Everything else can be learned from books or internet if necessary.

 

[aberreef]

Many people, myself included, have had a gutsfull of formal education, set syllabus', exams etc. and are wary of commities, associations and self important know-it-alls who tend to come to the fore in local bka's

Couldn't have put it better myself

Also time is a big consideration (work shifts so could only attend once a fortnight at best).

Not so long ago there were no courses but people learned from experienced beeks they knew. Now, with the wealth of info available on the net, books and forums like this one we are no longer completely on our own.

This is my second year, no bee education and no mentor, just me on my lonely lonesome. I've asked silly newb questions and had concerns over petty things but in all I'd say I've done pretty well on my own.

Thanks to everyone on here who takes time to advise btw

 

[oliver90owner]

but surely we should be encouraging newbees to get some educashun

Yep, I though nearly all of us do that. But you can lead a horse to water but.....

Money, time, inability to absorb the information, rubbish courses or pointless qualifications. Just a few reasons why some don't/won't go on courses.

I have heard very recently of a previously 'A' level qualified student having to do 'mickey mouse' computer maths and english qualifications (probably at little more than 'numeracy' and 'literacy' levels) to be able to gain access to another course! When they finished the exam (after about 10 minutes) and left they were asked 'did they want to know the result' The reply was curt and very much to the point re the value of that particular waste of time, effort and expense - just to keep someone in a job somewhere.

I understand the 'basic' exam is a pre-requisite for further modules. If I am correct, it is a waste of time, effort and space for many out there! Jobsworth comes to mind.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

with all of the above.
Due to my work patterns and other commitments it was impossible for me to attend a course.Luckily - again due to work I have plenty of time to read between watches and I always have enjoyed reading bee manuals (first when I was ten)
I agree with mbc - it took me a bit of 'shopping around' and advice from other beeks to find a BKA (I had a choice of four) which doesn't seem full of 'self important know it all's' - it must be a Welsh thing!! (don't worry I won't start speaking it again )
Visits to the association apiary when I've been home has been a great help as has this forum. and I hope to make the odd meeting next winter so at least I'll attend some of the course.
But I've always found I learn better by actually doing, there's only so much you can learn by reading books, attending courses et al. I need to get in there and hopefully if I'm stuck then find someone to ask a question.

 

[SixFooter]

Many people, myself included, have had a gutsfull of formal education, set syllabus', exams etc. and are wary of commities, associations and self important know-it-alls who tend to come to the fore in local bka's

You mean the people who give knowledge, help and lots of time for no payment just because they love beekeeping and wish to help others.
I'm not one of them btw, but I am very grateful to the self important know it alls who taught me.

 

[viridens]

But I also believe that the right 1-to-1 mentor is probably the best way to learn if possible.

 

[Stiffy]

Time, rubbish courses or pointless qualifications.
main reasons I failed to complete all but the final exam of the course I attended.

 

[region2]

What I've done to get to where I am now (5 colonies after one year) is to buy (and read) lots of books on eBay, a 10 week course at the local Agric College, a 1 day taster with my Division, lots of bee handling at our Apiaries, helping at the Apiaries and finally the Basic Course (over 10 weeks).

I've made mistakes - starved a colony by using the wrong feeder, mis-made a Brood Box while trying to follow Th@rnes' poor instructions (!) and been stung a few times. I struggle to find the queen and my busy life means I sometimes struggle to fit in inspections as necessary to avoid swarming. But my bees are doing well and healthy so hopefully I'm getting there!

Thus I've combined the practical and the 'academic' to provide a good foundation for my hobby which I think is the ideal mixture.

R2

 

[mbc]

You mean the people who give knowledge, help and lots of time for no payment just because they love beekeeping and wish to help others.
I'm not one of them btw, but I am very grateful to the self important know it alls who taught me.

I've no objection at all to those kind people who, when asked, give their time to give good help and advice to those who need it.

 

[victor meldrew]

Unfortunately times have changed.
All the hyperbole has created a stampede into the craft! Upshot is thousands of people have suddenly found the holistic side of their nature .
First thing to do is get hold of a hive ! have it populated with bees any bee will do but it must be populated now now now!!!.
There are and will always be people who will supply that demand regardless of the purchasers knowledge !.
Result, swarms all over the place, neglected hives, defensive bees from inappropriate crosses !
An inordinate amount of allergic beekeepers (more like Oh! Dear I didn't realise my own darling bees would sting Mummy/Daddy.) Sound far fetched? I think not I have met them by the dozen!
The roll of local associations has also changed to meet this demand, droves of newbies are enrolled for courses , bi-weekly training sessions are arranged , the tutors often being newbies themselves equiped with little or no knowledge/experience!

The days when a guy/gal , was bitten by the bee bug , looked around, found a bee keeper, expressed an interest in beekeeping and was prepared to listen and learn , help and most importantly wait until ready to be responsible for the welfare of a colony before becoming the proud owner of one , are over!
So ,what to do?
Education has got to be the route to stamping out this silliness and introduce some rationale!.
Formal (in an academic sense)isn't what I'm referring to but surely it stands to reason that a format including siting of hives, swarm control ,disease recognition and limitation , making of nucs, and uniting colonies should be the minimum requirements before anyone embarks on the husbandry of beekeeping ? by what ever route, personal mentor, or informal tuition ?
The situation we find ourselves it to date will implode if blithely ignored !

John Wilkinson

 

[region2]

Hear hear!
Your last paragraph sounds rather like the BBKA Basic Syllabus...

R2

 

[victor meldrew]

Hear hear!
Your last paragraph sounds rather like the BBKA Basic Syllabus...

R2

The BBKA must talk sense at least some of the time !
I am member of the bbka but was a beekeeper long before joining .
I did the basic course some 3 years ago (I tell a lie , I took the 'hands on informal chat style exam, having kept bees for the required period negating the need to attend the course).
I have learned an awful lot over the years ,some by experience but often by the experiences of other beeks ('The quiet man' Hivemaker) for one and of course by others .
My point remains, education needs be available ,newbies are probably least likely to bump into such people but probably most likely to benefit from such encounters?
Before I reach for my flack jacket I must point out that I have met newbies with a natural affinity with the craft , who then rapidly absorb and act on all aspects as if they've done it for years ! This type of newbie is a rarity hence my being a champion for EDUCATION .

John Wilkinson

 

[MrB]

I have learned an awful lot over the years ,some by experience but often by the experiences of other beeks ('The quiet man' Hivemaker) for one

John Wilkinson

He has been (and still is) the best source of information i have come accross!

 

[Blodwen Price]

I don't think any of the respondents to this thread are arguing against courses per se, all they have done is answer the original question, which was "why say no?". I am firmly in the "had enough education" camp, and have been subjected to just such idiocy as o90o mentioned, I had to do a Basic Literacy and Numeracy course so that it would appear on my personnel record, despite having GCE "O levels" in Maths, Eng Lit+Land and Welsh Lit+Lang!

 

[Peterwh]

It's like speeding. There's the speed limit and there's inappropriate speed. You can be at an inappropriately fast speed but be below the speed limit and you can be at an appropriate speed and be above the speed limit. In any activity you could have no formal qualifications but, with self education and experience do well or you could have qualifications and still do badly. Everyone has passed their driving test but, clearly, that does not make everyone a good driver.

Who decreed that BBKA courses are the only way to go? Not the bees for sure.

 

[Winker]

I did the BKA course this year, 12 talks covering different areas of beekeeping. each talk would drift into another area of beekeeping loosely related to the subject the person was talking about.

So in the end we had 12 different options on the same subject! Each person would have their own angle on how things should be done.

These people all need to start singing from the same hymn book, they are just confusing the noob. That's why so many people don't understand how to do an AS. One expert says one thing and another say something similar but puts his angle on it.

The noob goes away, when it come time to do the AS, he takes a bit of the info given from each person mixes things up and totally screws up and cant understand why.

Tooooo many opinions. Its great these people want to help, but cant they just all sing from one hymn sheet! They gave us a book to read...or rather should I say they sold us one. I would have though they would have taught us from the book, but nooooo that’s too easy. Each talk would be on how "They" think things should be done.

 

[viridens]

But if you are new, how do you know you've got the right mentor?

Good question, which applies to learning in general. Is there a philosopher/psychologist in the house?

I would say if you have a comfortable personal relationship where you don't feel that you are imposing on their time, feel able to ask 'silly' questions without embarrassment, where you feel confident that the answers you are hearing are good sense and based on experience, when your mentor doesn't claim to know it all or belittle you, and you are able to find out answers and learn together.
-And you both don't get stung too often and squash too many bees.

 

[Ellem]

We (my husband & I) did a course run by a not-so-local BKA before getting our bees. It happened that before we got them we also went to a couple of the local(ish) BKA group meets (more by chance than on purpose). We had tried, however, to get onto a reasonably priced course that wasn't too far away for nearly 3 years. 4 courses we were booked onto were cancelled at the last minute last year. Whilst knowledge (however you can get it) is vital, for some newbees getting onto a course that we can afford (be it cost, time or travel-wise) can be a nightmare. It's also not helped that some BKA's don't get back to you when you enquire about coming along to meetings (hence my BKA being local-ish instead of local). I think the important thing is getting knowledge but also acknowledging the limitations of that and not being afraid to ask if you are not sure(and try to sift out what of the conflicting advice you get you can work with). That's why I love forums like this. Yes, this type of 'education' can't beat the hands-on stuff with a mentor, but not all of us have that option.

That said, thanks to everyone on here for the help and advice given (even if I don't ask the question I learn all the time by reading all the posts that I can)