Why does my uniting never work?

[Ivor Kemp]

Can't work out what I'm doing wrong!

Going by the book in uniting colonies:

Two sheets of newspaper under a QE at lunchtime on top of the stronger hive with four needle holes in them. Leave alone with roof on.

Put the weaker hive on just before dusk. Put a roof on.

Three times, after three or four days undisturbed, the result is the same.

Hundreds of dead and dying fighting bees on the ground outside the front of the hive!

 

[REDWOOD]

forget the newspaper and QE, just use air freshener, spray on top of the colony that is going to have the united colony on top and spray the bottom bars of the colony going on top and a spray between then as you are uniting them, tried it myself this year recommended by a commercial beekeeper here, only a couple of dead bees.

 

[Ivor Kemp]

You serious?

 

[protheroe]

works for me everytime,never had fighting with it.

 

[Ivor Kemp]

Fair enough.

I'll assume then that the newspaper method doesn't work!

 

[DanBee]

Two sheets of newspaper under a QE at lunchtime on top of the stronger hive with four needle holes in them. Leave alone with roof on.

Put the weaker hive on just before dusk. Put a roof on.

I would strongly suspect that in the 8 or so hours between putting the newspaper on and uniting, the colony has already started to chew it and remove from the hive.

Only put the newspaper on at the point of uniting. One sheet. Works every time for me. Usually takes them less than 2 hours to fully unite with no signs of conflict.

Remember that the queen excluder is there only to stop the newspaper blowing away, and is no substitute for making an active decision as to which queen to keep if both sides are queenright

Which books were suggesting the lunchtime-dusk interval?

 

[VEG]

The bees will start on the newspaper as soon as it is put into the hive.

 

[Ivor Kemp]

Yes that makes sense to me about the length of time the paper has been in place.

I only wish I hadn't read this which is on a well-known advice site:

The hives to be united should be prepared during the day, when most of the flying bees are away from the hive, and the actual uniting done in the evening when all is quiet.

 

[beebreeder]

I have never bothered with the queen excluder, any drones will get trapped in the top and personally I would never unite two queen right colonies, I would always de-queen one as uniting usually has a reason behind it, you could always land up with the queen you did not want if you leave them to it and always as Dan says do it in one go.

 

[Ivor Kemp]

Take your point about the Queens although Mr Cushman also says:

Many texts will tell you to kill the least desirable queen in one of the two groups to be united, but I find it is often prudent to leave both queens, so that the bees can make the choice, in most cases the younger and fitter queen remains, but there may be subtle things in a queen's make up that the bees are better able to make choices about rather than the beekeeper.

 

[Poly Hive]

The devil is in the detail of prepare the hive.

News paper has worked for me every time for over 20 years. YOu need to ask yourself what you are doing wrong.

As for spraying weird substances in hives, I am dead against.

PH

 

[meidel]

I united with paper once and it worked - I did it all at the same time in the late afternoon - ie two sheets of newsprint, a few holes pricked and by evening I'm sure they'd been united as the bees were bringing out a few ribbons and there was a pile of paper dust under the hive.

I've also united two small colonies using rose scented syrup - spritzing the bees on the frames and putting the frames together

 

[masterBK]

Never wise to leave queens to fight it out as the winner may end up with bits missing (ends of a leg or antennae) bitten off by the eventual loser. The excluder not only holds the newspaper down but also ensures you know where the queen is (useful info if you want to reduce the hive down to one brood chamber).

 

[jdee]

I united two separate hives last year but made the mistake of uniting two different breeds of bees. It was like WWIII had broken out with dead bees carried off all ways.

When I mentioned this to one of our more senior members he reckoned it was because of the different races.

 

[meidel]

I tend to be wary of uniting different races of bees too.

Interestingly though, we gave a cupful of yellow swarm bees a black virgin queen earlier this spring and they've been fine - in fact we occasionally gave this colony frames of capped brood from the amber queen's hive just to boost the numbers and now the balck queen is laying well and we hope to see more black bees in this hive

 

[richardbees]

Just a single sheet of newspaper and little tears with the hive tool always works for me but i do it all at once.

Ted H suggests using a QE to hold the paper down if it's windy.

Redwood, was that Air Freshener suggestion legit?

 

[protheroe]

air freshener is used by some commercial beeks because its quick and easy with no messing about and it works well

 

[VEG]

and it is food safe and good for the bees!

 

[Into the lions den]

I tend to be wary of uniting different races of bees too.

Interestingly though, we gave a cupful of yellow swarm bees a black virgin queen earlier this spring and they've been fine - in fact we occasionally gave this colony frames of capped brood from the amber queen's hive just to boost the numbers and now the balck queen is laying well and we hope to see more black bees in this hive

In general, black bees are the universal rejector....insofar as queen introduction, of any race, including black, is a good bit harder. For the most part its a temeperament issue, they are just grumpier and less likely to accept what you give them, even if it is the same race.

Yellow bees on the other hand are pretty well the universal acceptor. Very good for getting new colonies going, as a nuc with no Q will ake almost any queen you give it with no problems.

 

[richardbees]

two endorsements and I'm a trusting soul....I'll try it next time

rich