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Hivemaker. 

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In the past i have never had much time to read some of the technical stuff about the bbka,but have been looking over some of this in the last few days,must admit i have been quite confused about some of the issues about why they take sponsorship from bayer,the reason is most of us, the beekeepers voted for it.This was in the 2006 ADM, and according to the bbka constitution cannot be voted for again for 3 years, which is now. The bbka exec who i along with many others are blaming for the decision to be sponsored by bayer ,have really no choice if we vote for this sponsorship,it is our choice,not the bbka exec.They cannot change this decission on there own without us.So the way i see this the majority of beekeepers in 2006 were in favour of bayer sponsorship.how sick is that.
 

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But thats the same as saying that the majority of the uk supported the war in Iraq,we voted labour to get them in power so we have to agree with the way they act.
 

Hivemaker. 

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Thats what i,m saying,to get away from bayer, we have the vote.
 
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Chris B 

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BBKA is a democracy but not a very efficient one. County associations are mostly not proactive in canvassing opinion and ensuring their delegate votes accordingly. In fact delegates are probably chosen well before the agenda for the ADM is even published. It means the ADM can be easily manipulated. However, it's not impossible to force change from the grass roots level, and from snippets I'm hearing it sounds like the votes are going to be quite tight. Find out who your delegate is and try to influence them in the next 2 weeks because it might make all the difference!
 

raysa 

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But thats the same as saying that the majority of the uk supported the war in Iraq,we voted labour to get them in power so we have to agree with the way they act.
No, this is not the same at all. The electorate was not given a vote on whether to invade Iraq. Not even our elected representatives were given that vote. We don't get a direct vote on most decisions - we elect the government and then we are bound by (not necessarily agreeing with, but bound by) their decisions until the next election. It's still democracy, but easier to grumble about.

With the bbka/bayer thing, the electorate was given a vote on that specific issue - it wasn't a case of electing the bbka and then being lumbered with their decisions - it was an ADM vote on the issue itself. Quite different, and even harder to disown responsibility for!

Ray
 

Hivemaker. 

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From the snippets i have heard its not even going to be a close run thing,so it may just go to show that the majority of beekeepers are in favour of pesticides,and the poison to carry the logo.
 

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No, this is not the same at all. The electorate was not given a vote on whether to invade Iraq. Not even our elected representatives were given that vote. We don't get a direct vote on most decisions - we elect the government and then we are bound by (not necessarily agreeing with, but bound by) their decisions until the next election. It's still democracy, but easier to grumble about.

With the bbka/bayer thing, the electorate was given a vote on that specific issue - it wasn't a case of electing the bbka and then being lumbered with their decisions - it was an ADM vote on the issue itself. Quite different, and even harder to disown responsibility for!

Ray
How many BBKA members even new that it was being voted on though ?
Did the BBKA contact associations asking them to canvas members at the time?

What concerns me most is not the fact it was voted for its more the fact it was kept under wraps until a group in Cambs started asking questions,what else are the BBKA keeping from members?
 

Hivemaker. 

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Well i suppose every bka member has had a ballot paper to vote, the results of the vote is then the decision of the bka, and is passed to there delegate.
 

jimbeekeeper 

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what else are the BBKA keeping from members?
Its OK Mulder, I dont think this is going to turn into an X file?

On the flip side, do you think that BAYER are regretting their choice? I mean, all the problems and the week leadership in the BBKA?
 

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Its OK Mulder, I dont think this is going to turn into an X file?

On the flip side, do you think that BAYER are regretting their choice? I mean, all the problems and the week leadership in the BBKA?
Its just that members say Bayer pay around 5 thousand pounds a year for 3 years, yet they will lose more than 5 thousand pounds in membership,do you see why I asked the question.

Regards the x-files I have been told about a couple of other issues that I am not going to go into on an internet forum.
 

tony350i 

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Regards the x-files I have been told about a couple of other issues that I am not going to go into on an internet forum.

---------------------------------------------------

send me a pm i won't say any thing i promise
 

mikethebee 

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hi peter
Happy new year to u and family try to keep ur stiky fingers off the keybord
give yer misses a big hug for me.

all the best mike
 

Hivemaker. 

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Hi Mike, hope you don't get too sunburnt, happy new year,hope you enjoy your Australia experiance.
 

mrDoe 

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I think you'll find it was Derby beeks that first uncovered the secret pesticide deal that was hidden away in the BBKA accounts, not a group in Cambs. Once the secret deal was out in the open the BBKA were forced to ratify the deal via an ADM and faced with a done deal the delegates only voted for it by the slimmest of majorities.

The BBKA had no right or mandate to enter into the sponsorship deal in the first place and one can only puzzle over the motives of those that drove the deal through. It has never been established, to my knowledge, who made the initial proposals to reward the BBKA for it's co-operation in marketing pesticides, but unless the petrochemical companies got round a table and plotted the duping of a charitable association, at some point after one company might have made the initial offer, the BBKA must have gone touting for sponsorship from the others. Either way, in settling for such a small sum of money the multinationals must have been incredulous over the ease with which they have pocketed what might have been a real thorn in their side.

I suspect the continued secrecy surrounding the whole debacle, and the BBKA's continued attempts to force policy rather than be lead by a democratic process, is indicative of an indefensibly corrupt position.
 

MJBee 

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This discussion has been raging back and forth for months.
Unless BBKA Members ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING the status quo will continue.

Time is rapidly running out the ADM is on 10 JAN 2009. The whole question of BBKA's relationship with the Agrochemical industry is being put to the vote.

It is up to the members to seek out their ADM delegate and ensure that he/she votes the way the members want. This is where my frustration comes out - ONLY Association delegates to the ADM are allowed to vote - How many BBKA members like myself have no access to an Association and therefore NO VOTE.
I urge members to read the small print of the proposals to be voted on as shown on pages 2 and 3 of ADM 2009 which is in the December 2008 issue of BBKA News.

Mike
 
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artibaton 

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speaking from the outside and very much as a newbee, why is there not an Independent British Beekeepers Association?

anyone have a hell of a lot of free time?:grouphug:
 

MJBee 

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BBKA ADM 10 Jan 2009

Hi Hivemaker
You may be right but there IS going to be a vote on the 10th Jan.
That will be the only chance to change things for the next 3 years. As I said in my previous post unless members of the BBKA instruct their Association delegates to vote against the present situation then "For evil to triumph good men just need to do nothing" or something like that. :cheers2:Mike

For the benefit of those who do not have the proposals to hand the gist is as follows.
02/2009 The BBKA Exec continues to talk to Agrochem with the objective of improving the health and welfare of bees and beekeeping.

03/2009 The BBKA Exec may after appraisal of products make representations to companies and related regulatory authorities with the objective of improving the safety and efficiency of their products in relation to bees.

04/2009 The BBKA Exec may after appraisal allow companies to use wording as may be agreed with the Exec including the BBKA logo to describe the BBKA's opinion as to the proper application and use of such products as regards the health and safety of bees.

05/2009 That the BBKA may accept payment for granting a licence for use of it's logo

06/2009 That any money received by the BBKA as a condition of granting a licence, as in 05 above, shall be ring-fenced for bee research.

07/2009 In the event that either any one of propositions 02 - 05 fails or proposition 06 is passed, the capitation for members shall be increased by ?1.00 effective 1st April 2010.

My vote - if I had one - would be 02 and 03 Agreed YES
04 and 05 RESOUNDING NO
Therefore 06 becomes redundant and 07 automatically comes into force, but please note the effective date - are they taking the mickey or what?
 

MJBee 

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A thought has just occurred:-
Are any forum members going to attend the ADM (if they are allowed to) to report on the results? Or is everything behind closed doors?
 

Hivemaker. 

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I am right,i have tried.no good. but hope it does not happen.
 
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