When you think you are on top of things (update)

[StephenT]

For those who want to expand, that's the way to do it.
I would always say to keep a few as back-ups in nucs though. If people look at their historic loss and plan to over-produce queens by double that amount, you can maintain your colony numbers. I say double to allow for things to go wrong (as they can at each stage - particularly towards the end of the season).
If you end up with more than you need, there'll always be someone who hasn't planned for loss in need of a queen.

to start off a back-up nuc would you just set up a nuc with eggs/brood, stores, nurse bees and leave them to raise a Q? And then if you need that Q for another hive then use it and let them raise another?

 

[B+.]

to start off a back-up nuc would you just set up a nuc with eggs/brood, stores, nurse bees and leave them to raise a Q? And then if you need that Q for another hive then use it and let them raise another?

No.
A queen is fed copious amounts of royal jelly so a nuc just doesn't have the nurse bee population to produce well-fed queens. A nuc is a good home for a queen cell but producing them really requires a full colony (or equivalent). Whichever race of bee you work with, you can't go wrong if you follow Michael Palmers recommendations. I raise lots of queens and use a method very similar to this.

 

[jeff33]

Jeff, interesting. I was wondering this about my demarees. Do i keep rolling through spring or take down and build up again.

Do you find there is time to dismantle or split and then build up again in time for main flow?

I haven't done this before but last year I lost a couple of swarms during June gap so I want to try and minimise the chances with the strongest hives. The way I am considering this (rightly or wrongly) is purely based on the strength of the colony and how well the queen lays. Some hives I have demaree over the last 2 weeks will not be split but those that are really strong will be. I plan to remove the top box (which usually have 3-4 frames of brood and the rest is nectar) to set-up as a new colony and do a new demaree if needs be.

 

[B+.]

No.
A queen is fed copious amounts of royal jelly so a nuc just doesn't have the nurse bee population to produce well-fed queens. A nuc is a good home for a queen cell but producing them really requires a full colony (or equivalent). Whichever race of bee you work with, you can't go wrong if you follow Michael Palmers recommendations. I raise lots of queens and use a method very similar to this.

EDIT: If you had 2 colonies (as beginners are recommended to do) and one of the queens was quite old, pop her in a nuc with a frame of brood, a frame of food and a few frames of comb. Leave her colony for 9 days then go through it, shaking all the bees off the combs and destroying anything that even looks like a queen cell. They are likely to be unhappy about this so do it with care and consideration to what is going on around you. Make a space in the middle for a frame of grafts (this configuration will easily support 20-30 (but you don't have to put that many in if you don't need them). After 5-6 days, the cells will be sealed and you'll be able to make up mating nucs with your cells. You can leave them a few days but you'll have to cage them (i.e. Nicot cages) if you intend the virgins to emerge in this colony.

 

[Worker bee]

No.
A queen is fed copious amounts of royal jelly so a nuc just doesn't have the nurse bee population to produce well-fed queens. A nuc is a good home for a queen cell but producing them really requires a full colony (or equivalent). Whichever race of bee you work with, you can't go wrong if you follow Michael Palmers recommendations. I raise lots of queens and use a method very similar to this.

I disagree I often do Q cells in a nuc I just make sure I have minimum three frames of capped and shake lots of nurse bees in, feed them and put a pollen patty in the bottom. You should have 200 nurse bees per cell. In fact I think a nuc is ideal to raise queens because you can pack lots of nurse bees into a small space and they can regulate the temperature better. On the 6th or 12th day I make my splits leave one behind but transfer it to a full brood topped off with open and capped brood or I'll do the same but add more capped and give it a second set of q cells to raise minus the primed cell. I usually have my best queen in a top bar so I can take her out and start q cells with her then put her in a nuc in a nicot box. She lays in the box while in the top bar q cells can easily be cut out

 

[B+.]

I disagree I often do Q cells in a nuc I just make sure I have minimum three frames of capped and shake lots of nurse bees in, feed them and put a pollen patty in the bottom. You should have 200 nurse bees per cell. In fact I think a nuc is ideal to raise queens because you can pack lots of nurse bees into a small space and they can regulate the temperature better. On the 6th or 12th day I make my splits leave one behind but transfer it to a full brood topped off with open and capped brood or I'll do the same but add more capped and give it a second set of q cells to raise minus the primed cell. I usually have my best queen in a top bar so I can take her out and start q cells with her then put her in a nuc in a nicot box. She lays in the box while in the top bar q cells can easily be cut out

I don't think you're disagreeing at all. You agree that it takes lots of young nurse bees to feed the developing queen larva, which is the main point. I wouldn't get hung up over numbers because you can adjust the number of cells you ask them to make. Also, nucs vary in size from 3-frames all the way up to 8 (I have 8-frame Langstroths which are almost as good as a full hive). The main point is that the developing larvae should never be short of food/warmth.

 

[jeff33]

Think we may be talking about different things..
I was referring to this - Ken Basterfields method of a vertical split for reactive swarm control vs a proactive Demaree for swarm prevention.

http://www.basterfield.com/docs/Vertical split swarm control.pdf

Finally got around to read this. It is very similar although his Q- half is on top and he gives them more brood than what I do. Surprised that he does suggest to re-unite with the 2 queens to let them decide which they want to keep.

 

[elainemary]

Finally got around to read this. It is very similar although his Q- half is on top and he gives them more brood than what I do. Surprised that he does suggest to re-unite with the 2 queens to let them decide which they want to keep.

Probably because he has a lot of colonies to cover and doesn’t have the time to procrastinate like we do

 

[ericbeaumont]

Probably because he has a lot of colonies to cover and doesn’t have the time to procrastinate like we do

Blackbury Honey Farm run about 120 colonies, but even so leaving two to fight it out is risky, and at the very least the waste of a reserve queen.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Many bee farmers do it, Murray Mcgregor for a start