Whats was your total Varroa drop after oxalic

Beekeeping & Apiculture Forum

Help Support Beekeeping & Apiculture Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

What was your average varroa drop after winter oxalic

  • I did not do a winter oxalic treatment

    Votes: 40 26.0%
  • I did not measure the varroa drop

    Votes: 37 24.0%
  • less than 50 in the first week

    Votes: 29 18.8%
  • 50-149 in the first week

    Votes: 19 12.3%
  • 150-249 in first week

    Votes: 13 8.4%
  • 250-349 in first week

    Votes: 3 1.9%
  • 350-449 in first week

    Votes: 4 2.6%
  • 450-549 in first week

    Votes: 4 2.6%
  • 550- 700 in first week

    Votes: 1 0.6%
  • over 700

    Votes: 4 2.6%

  • Total voters
    154
Interesting results BB and if I read it correct you missed Thymol treatments in the early autumn? if so this was a bad move and as I am concerned a far more important treatment than Oxalic Acid. The result of the Varroa concentrated on an ever decreasing brood pattern at a time when the bees are trying to raise winter bees is not good for the bees health.
Your bees may be ok and some treatment is better than non.

Your treatment in early autumn will be easily negated before the winter cluster occurs. Robbing can produce more mites than were in a colony prior to treatment at this time. Oxalic acid in December would have eliminated the mites BB is experiencing. The mites already in the brood will result in severe damage and hinder colony development - if any development is possible with such an infestation!
In most years except in extreme winters like 2009/10 queens do not stop laying - providing a continuous supply of hosts. These larvae could host an indeterminate mite burden and render the host either useless or dead! As you say. Not good!

Yzalich
 
In most years except in extreme winters like 2009/10 queens do not stop laying - providing a continuous supply of hosts. These larvae could host an indeterminate mite burden and render the host either useless or dead! As you say. Not good!

I agree, well most of them do around here (but bees and regions obviously vary) which makes using oxalic even more pointless if this is the case, as most of the mites are quite safe. Most likely time for being broodless for my bees is late august up until late September, and an ideal opportunity to get rid of most of the mites before winter bees are produced.
 
Last edited:
Your treatment in early autumn will be easily negated before the winter cluster occurs. Robbing can produce more mites than were in a colony prior to treatment at this time. Oxalic acid in December would have eliminated the mites BB is experiencing. The mites already in the brood will result in severe damage and hinder colony development - if any development is possible with such an infestation!
In most years except in extreme winters like 2009/10 queens do not stop laying - providing a continuous supply of hosts. These larvae could host an indeterminate mite burden and render the host either useless or dead! As you say. Not good!

Yzalich

I doubt my bees have stopped brood raising this winter its just been so mild and bees seen flying today and the next week warm for the time of year. I am more concerned over this than Varroa right now. So a treatment that can be applied over a four, five, six or longer treatment and monitored is better than a one trick pony in my opinion or at least a conclusion I have reached.

I think Oxalic is ok and proven and a tool for the beekeeper to use, I for the first time in five years tried it this year on five hives and me and the bees were not happy especially the bees, to warm not in cluster and I suspected a small brood present so the disturbance to the bees perhaps did more harm than good.

Obviously robbing bees and starving bees following the robbers can introduce a high load of Varroa into a hive but how common is this? and it is possible to get on top of a Varroa problem early if the time and effort is there.
 
Obviously robbing bees and starving bees following the robbers can introduce a high load of Varroa into a hive but how common is this? and it is possible to get on top of a Varroa problem early if the time and effort is there.
See http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=21864

The suggestion from this research is that there is enough movement for any hive within a mile or so of varroa ridden colonies to pick up a couple of hundred mites in the August to October period. In a suburban or edge of town situation there are other apiaries and ferals around that you have no control over, probably don't even know about. Even if you could clear your own hives of varroa 100% (and that's not realistic) there's a good chance some more will arrive between autumn treatment and midwinter.
 
Obviously robbing bees and starving bees following the robbers can introduce a high load of Varroa into a hive but how common is this? and it is possible to get on top of a Varroa problem early if the time and effort is there.

Hi Tom

Try this: This appeared as an article in a recent issue of the Scottish Beekeeper magazine.
.........................................................................
Varroa – A Stitch in Time!
Eric McArthur
I thought of writing this event using a pseudonym, however I considered the odds and came to the conclusion that being virtually the only beekeeper in Scotland and - dare I say it Britain, fool enough to break ranks and strongly advocate publicly, over the years, the use of the organic acids to treat Varroa long before many could even spell oxalic dihydrate or who still have a pathological fear of formic acid, that a ‘cloak’ would be penetrated pdq.
In early January 2012, one of five colonies in a particular apiary in West Dunbartonshire, which similar to the other four colonies had indicated a negligible mite drop up to this point in time; quite suddenly produced a massive mite drop within a three day period. I would qualify this statement by stating that I (we) monitor the floor insert every three days, the year round, which proved to be a sensible time scale, especially if one is canny and does not follow the fashionable doctrine of renewing all the brood combs annually. The bees will produce a ‘heap’ ( I use the word literally!) of detritus inside that time scale when residing on ‘mature’ brood comb, making a mite count less than easy, if checking is done even on a weekly basis.
The late December weather had produced the odd flyable day and this colony (uniquely!) had obviously located a lucrative source of easy pickings in a ‘near distance’ colony, which also had masses of unwelcome guests. We immediately fumigated the colony with 1.5 g, oxalic dehydrate, using the short pipe in conjunction with a gas blowlamp. The following six days produced large numbers of mites on the insert and it became plain that many mites could have entered the ‘winter brood’. What to do? Formic acid is the only treatment which reaches the mites in the sealed cells – but formic acid requires at least 18 – 24 C to effectively evaporate it. No chance of such temperatures at this early stage. Hmmmmmmmmmm! Out of the question? I slept on the problem – and somewhere in the wee sma’ hours of the morning I woke with a ‘Eureka’ experience. Evaporate formic acid in the winter – a piece of cake!
We checked the other colonies floor inserts for mite drop over the next week – no worries!
The problem colony still had a high mite drop during this period (I work for a daily – ‘nil to negligible’ mite drop - the fewer the mites the lower the viral problems!) – so without ado we placed a 6”x6”x 3/16”, kitchen sponge on the brood frame top bars above the clustering bees, trickled 30 mls, 60% formic acid onto the sponge, placed a plastic sheet over the sponge and put a rubber hot water bottle filled with near boiling water from a large thermos flask on top and said a few ‘Hail Marys’. The mite drop was checked on schedule. Mite drop under control! A mite fall occurred over a period of fourteen days from the HWB treatment after which the drop ceased: The last of the treated sealed brood having now emerged with their dead(ly) cargo. The colony survived into the early summer - weakened but responded to a new queen from mid May. I requeen every year and all our colonies had new 2012 queens installed by late May.
All our colonies have been fed a 1 : 2 (sugar :water) syrup since early March – waiting on the hoped for weather window of 10 – 14 days unbroken sunshine with little wind. At time of writing the late summer nectar sources, lime, bramble, willow herb and privet have at best around 10 days of effective bloom left! Vive la Himalayan balsam – which will bloom effectively until the first frost.
Fairy tale, no! Maverick treatment – yes! Worth a try?? Even Nations need a ‘lender of last resort’ when all else fails – winter formic acid treatment could be your ‘Bank of England’ – one day – soon?
 
Last edited:
See http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=21864

The suggestion from this research is that there is enough movement for any hive within a mile or so of varroa ridden colonies to pick up a couple of hundred mites in the August to October period. In a suburban or edge of town situation there are other apiaries and ferals around that you have no control over, probably don't even know about. Even if you could clear your own hives of varroa 100% (and that's not realistic) there's a good chance some more will arrive between autumn treatment and midwinter.

Yes interesting Alan and this could happen at any time of year, obviously some times are more of a problem regarding treatment with an adverse effect on a colony. August to October will be covered with my Thymol treatments, well up to mid October and after that it will be a problem that I would be unaware of until early spring without monitoring.

It just goes to show that we ignore Varroa at our peril and we have plenty of treatments available to us and it’s a question of finding what works for ourselves and we are happy with.

Yzalich Thanks for the story its interesting, I don’t know a great deal about Formic Acid I understand what it is but never shown how it works and never even been interested in looking into it, no great bias against. I do and have used Lactic Acid but sparingly.
 
At leat this Eric is not a wise guy in varroa treatment..



Would you like to explain this statement, Seppo? Perhaps in the Fininsh language there are hidden nuances which are not present in the English. You might remember I hit Dr Mike Brown for "6" (this is an English nuance!) when he made his presentation on his 'plagiarised' diagnostic tool for mite tolerance to Bayvarol/Apistan at the IBRA "Bees without Frontiers", Cardiff University Conference, he knew but few others, myself included, knew at that time that 'pyrethroid tolerance' was rife among colonies in Devon.
Despite this I challenged him in words of one syllable to tell his DEFRA masters to give beekeepers access to alternative treatments. He walked off the platform without answering the question! Later it transpired that he was involved 'in camera' in work using thymol donated free gratis to the Devon beekeeprs - which he chose not to mention - lest he had to admit that he had a potentially desperate situation on hands.
Cast your mind back to Copenhagen some years ago when my work on the Russian Heat Treatment System was presented at the end of the Bella Center Varroa Conference by Gunnar Thygesen, President of the Danish Beekeepers Association where he received a standing ovation for it. You were among the elite of Northen European scientists on the platform that day. Incidentally Gunnar had to force the issue to be given time to speak. The Conference organisers did not want to talk about the Russian work. By coincidence some of the scientists at the Copenhagen event participated in the later 'questionable' paper tabled by Dr Ramsay elswhere in this forum.
Ask Ingmar Vries about the Merlebeke European Working Party Conference on Varroa where a 45 minute discussion on Varroa tolerant bees took place against his express wishes.

You want to talk about Varroa and its treatments over the past 30 years? You are on!

Yzalich
 
Last edited:
You want to talk about Varroa and its treatments over the past 30 years? You are on!

Yzalich

WHAT
WHAT
WHAT

on WHAT...........who is Seppo

WHAT I SAID is that this is not possible :winter formic acid treatment , not even in your severe winter +10C

.
 
Last edited:
.
I know Seppo Korpela quite well. Thanks to him, our varroa things are not so compicated and impossiple like in wiser countries.
He wrote couple of pages advices and they have worked well over 10 years.

.
 
Last edited:
WHAT
WHAT
WHAT

on WHAT...........who is Seppo

WHAT I SAID is that this is not possible :winter formic acid treatment , not even in your severe winter +10C.

Thanks for the assistance here Hivemaker!

Aaaaaaaaaaaah, Haaaaaaaaaaaaaa! The nuance!

Fixed ideas get nothing done! What idiot said that the planets orbit the sun! Silly man!
I also habitually apply formic acid treatment in mid April. In case it has escaped you most of the potential early summer foragers are developing in the brood cells at this time - along with an indeterminate number of varroa mites. Formic acid at this time cleans these little mite bastards out!



I can maintain my colonies at miye levels of nil to negligible - even as i speak!
 
.
I know Seppo Korpela quite well. Thanks to him, our varroa things are not so compicated and impossiple like in wiser countries.
He wrote couple of pages advices and they have worked well over 10 years.

.
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Originally Posted by Finman View Post
WHAT
WHAT
WHAT

on WHAT...........who is Seppo
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
You playing silly buggers?

Yzalich
 
I first started using formic back in 2001/2 when we got the resistant mites, both Nassenhieder and blast method.
 
43 over a 16 day period

Week 1 = 32
Week 2 = 11

Have removed board now as lots of condensation was forming so need air circulation back. Cold weather passed now... I hope!
 
Why don't you try looking at some of the ways that cancers are treated. That might just give you an insight into the tools/techniques that beeks are lacking in their fight against varroa.

Apples and oranges.

People want to be treated and will respond to appropriate communications, whereas animals are unconscious of the problem, are thus indifferent, and do not share our power of language.

A much better example to make a comparison with is that of compulsory sheep-dipping. Went on for generation after generation - but never eliminated the ticks.

LJ
 
What numbers?

Respondents? Varroa drop? One particular post?

Have poll on whether to have a poll on levels of broodlessness? Who actually is numpty enough to check anyway!
 

Latest posts

Back
Top