What's the Point of the Kennel Club?

[RoofTops]

Just been listening to an interesting Radio 4 programme on the subject of dog breeding, showing and the Kennel Club. It was hard not to draw comparisions with some aspects of beekeeping but it was a good programme in its own right. It will appear on iPlayer soon. It was at 09:00 -09:30 today, 7th September.

Our dog is a Jack Russell.

 

[Brosville]

Agree totally with you - I'm in favour of "Grufts" instead http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/mar/10/grufts-winner-tosca-most-heroic-dog
(I've got a Jack Russel with a smidgeon of Staffie, and my mum's dog - half Yorkie, half Chihuaha, heart of a lion!)

 

[SixFooter]

I'm fairly new to beekeeping, but I dont understand why lots of Beekeepers seem to recomend only getting "local bees". This must increase inbreeding which will weaken the local stock and make them susceptible to being wiped out. ( What I learned on an Undergraduate Genetics course 30 years ago leads me to beleive this)

When I say I dont understand, I dont mean that I dont agree, I just mean I dont understand the thinking. Surely if we keep the population as diverse as possible, but select for temper and other desirable traits and actively encourage importing healthy bees from outside the area, we'll end up with a stronger poputlation.

Can someone explain to me why this is not so.

 

[RoofTops]

The problems include exactly what you describe - selecting for temper. The subsequent off-spring of bees coming from widely different places can be of very uncertain temper.

The ideal of selecting local bees is to try and avoid this but you are right, in-breeding could be a risk but only if the population was very closed. In most parts of the UK, taking into account drones can fly 5 miles or more to mate, there is sufficient diversity. They were concered about in-breeding in the Scilly Isles so some queens were imported to add some diversification but from now on they are trying to avoid doing this again.

There is also the argument that local bees will be adapted for local conditions. This has an attractive ring to it but it rather ignores places like Finland where all the bees are imported and bee farmer I know there uses a mixture of Italian, Carniolan and Buckfasts to great success.

 

[oliver90owner]

The term 'local' is subjectively accurate if compared to 'imports' from another far-away land. Within 50 or even 100 miles might easily be construed as 'local'. It may depend on direction somewhat, but they are still locals compared to stocks arriving by air from disparate regions of the globe.

Regards, RAB

 

[susbees]

For local read of appropriate ecotype....well adapted to local forage, climate etc. Which takes a while.

Woof!

 

[admin]

If I have a pedigree fifi trixibelle and mate her with the runt from next door thats the same breed,what is stopping me from saying the stud dog is from an award winner 500 miles up the road If I throw the price of a pup at the stud owners ? and then register the pups with the kennel club and sell for a bag of sand a pup.

 

[taff..]

Just been listening to an interesting Radio 4 programme on the subject of dog breeding, showing and the Kennel Club. It was hard not to draw comparisions with some aspects of beekeeping but it was a good programme in its own right. It will appear on iPlayer soon. It was at 09:00 -09:30 today, 7th September.

Our dog is a Jack Russell.

the kennel club took a right kicking last year on the back of the programme (was it a Panorama? can't remember) showing problems with Boxers - epilepsy, GSD's - Hip displacia and the little spaniels whos heads are too small for its brains amongst others.

they lost BBC coverage of crufts and Pedegree pulled out as their main sponsor. they have (apparently) started to change breed standards to try and breed out problems like the GSD's have......I hate seeing shepherds with their back ends dragging on the floor just because the show judges place them higher than healthy dogs


all contact I have had with the KC has been positive, I have organised/managed Agility shows and have had to liase with them to keep them happy. at the end of the day, they are just like the BBKA in that they are passionate about the welfare and wellbeing of animals, they may not be perfect and may have made some mistakes, but on the whole I believe they are there for the right reasons. (sending me my dogs Agility Warrant (Bronze) certificate is just one good reason )

 

[taff..]

If I have a pedigree fifi trixibelle and mate her with the runt from next door thats the same breed,what is stopping me from saying the stud dog is from an award winner 500 miles up the road If I throw the price of a pup at the stud owners ? and then register the pups with the kennel club and sell for a bag of sand a pup.

the KC have records of pedegree dogs, i.e. you can ask them for a 5 generation family tree showing the history.

the paperwork you have to fill in to register a litter is a little complex and the can and do check up on stuff.

for example, when we bought our GSD the breeder (using that term very loosely) filled in the paperwork for us to have the KC registration, it turned out that the litter mother had a restriction on her from her breeders, saying that she could not be bred from without permission. in reality, that doesn't stop her having pups, it stops the pups being registered as pedigree. that led to us having to spend lots of time searching for the people that had bred the litter mother to request their permission to register our bitch. once she had been registered we got the 5 generation chart which showed that she has 5 show champions in her 'family', very good lineage

 

[Vortex]

Whilst the Kennel Club may keep recrods this has very little to do with genetics - just take a look at the 4 genetically distinct breeds of Belgian Shepard that they class as one breed.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Kennel club....pedigree's.....right bunch of monkey buisness that is...especially in the gundog breeds....bit like forrest gumps mother said...life is like a box of chocolates...you never know what your gonna get.

 

[Skyhook]

at the end of the day, they are just like the BBKA in that they are passionate about the welfare and wellbeing of animals,

When I were a lad, my parents bought a pedigree springer spaniel, which went on to develope entropian (an inherited condition where the eyelids turn in on the eyes). They reported it to the kennel club who weren't remotely interested, said they just keep records. Despite the fact that they instigated the rules which led to her being able to sell 'pedigree' pups.

All kickings thoroughly deserved.

 

[taff..]

Whilst the Kennel Club may keep recrods this has very little to do with genetics - just take a look at the 4 genetically distinct breeds of Belgian Shepard that they class as one breed.

I dont think this is a very good example to be honest, this particular argument (as far as I'm aware) is not restricted to the KC, it is being argued in many countries.

I believe the Belgians consider them to be varieties of a single breed, the US recognise 3 of the 4 as seperate breeds (and the 4th can be registered on their version of the 'working register' but I cant remember what its called).

at the end of the day, the KC (and others) are following the FCI classification which classifies them as varieties of a single breed


(I am not here to defend the KC or the decisions they make, I just speak as I find, and I have found them to be very helpfull with regards to my AGILITY queries)

 

[victor meldrew]

My old dog ain't got a pedigree !
Against the rules as she's a rescued dog .
She beats the champion Crufts winner in my eyes

John Wilkinson

 

[kazmcc]

Beautiful dog John, looks a bit like your profile pic What breed is she?

My dad had an Irish Wolfhound. He was a pedigree and I used to show him as a kid. I don't like the thought that dogs are having these problems exacerbated through breeding. It's just wrong

 

[victor meldrew]

She's a Samoyed bitch 11 years old .
Neh! then! the profile pic is something else I was once accused of being a wolf in sheeps' clothing coz I subscribe to both this and the bbka forums .

Look closely and you will see a wolf wearing a fleece

Sashas' pic was taken last winter in my apiary whenI was administering oxalic acid . The weather wasn't all that cold LOL

John Wilkinson

 

[Bcrazy]

Hey Roof Tops

Your dog must be very posh having two names Jack and Russell, my 4 only have a single name apeice. Sheena, Wallace, Poppy and Chelsea.

Mo

 

[RoofTops]

He's got 3 names actually: Jack The Russell. Usually written Jack T Russell.

Currently asleep, which is what he does in between eating or biting the postman.

 

[Bcrazy]

Posh very posh. Mr. Lar de dar eh? (Smile)

Mo