Whats falling down the gap between the NBU and the BBKA?

[blackcloud]

The concept was lost in translation.It was originally to be a Beerhaus but the Chinese end of the scheme didn't question the typo

 

[rolande]

An Institute might quite quickly improve the standard of queens, matched to the varying needs of the differing parts of UK, and ban imports.

No. It wouldn't. Unless, you just mean that its own members would be banned from using imports.

 

[Ian123]

but now beekeeping attracts educated people who like to dabble and buy a Omlet beehaus, a plastic toy that arrives in a big box needing only the legs to be attached. Excellent website (I wrote much of it!).

Clearly not that educated then?
In your last few postings you’ve alienated serious queen breeders most commercial operations and large numbers of more serious amateurs. …….. Good luck

 

[Murox]

Whilst opportunities for contemporary researchers to provide input and scientific evidence must be provided, somehow I don’t think antediluvian professors are going to drive change or advance beekeeping in the uk. The BBKA appears remote, and it doesn’t actually represent the whole of UK. My experience of it to date is that only some individual members are interested in what happens beyond its parochial borders. Take Wedmore's books, "A Manual of Beekeeping" and "The Ventilation of Bee-Hives", and his booklet, "Successful Bee-keeping", all still continue to be quoted and used by some beekeepers. Organisational policy needs to be informed not governed by personal bias and should aim to advance UK beekeeping. Understanding other factors including public opinion and beekeepers preferences and values might be a challenge too far...

 

[user 6228]

what the typhoid Mary of beekeeping?!

lasi have not updated their website for 3 years is it defunct?

 

[user 6228]

Whilst opportunities for contemporary researchers to provide input and scientific evidence must be provided, somehow I don’t think antediluvian professors are going to drive change or advance beekeeping in the uk. The BBKA appears remote, and it doesn’t actually represent the whole of UK. My experience of it to date is that only some individual members are interested in what happens beyond its parochial borders. Take Wedmore's books, "A Manual of Beekeeping" and "The Ventilation of Bee-Hives", and his booklet, "Successful Bee-keeping", all still continue to be quoted and used by some beekeepers. Organisational policy needs to be informed not governed by personal bias and should aim to advance UK beekeeping. Understanding other factors including public opinion and beekeepers preferences and values might be a challenge too far...

You cant get funding to go over stuff that is taken as "done". You cant get funding to work outside the "current priorities" And you certainly cant get funding to tell the establishment they have been talking tosh for 80 years. Getting beekeepers to question the establishment is far easier, but still difficult.

 

[Murox]

what the typhoid Mary of beekeeping?!

The whole is greater than the part.

 

[Murox]

You cant get funding to go over stuff that is taken as "done". You cant get funding to work outside the "current priorities" And you certainly cant get funding to tell the establishment they have been talking tosh for 80 years. Getting beekeepers to question the establishment is far easier, but still difficult.

That'll be a systemic failure then Or is it a triumph?( the system always screws you)

 

[user 6228]

That'll be a systemic failure then Or is it a triumph?( the system always screws you)

It is frustrating and wastes a lot of time. Meanwhile the direction of beekeeping is stalled.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Omlet beehaus, a plastic toy that arrives in a big box needing only the legs to be attached. Excellent website (I wrote much of it!).

Do you get a commission on the sales?

 

[Ian123]

You cant get funding to go over stuff that is taken as "done".

Err…… Ratnieks did

 

[Ian123]

Clearly not that educated then?
In your last few postings you’ve alienated serious queen breeders most commercial operations and large numbers of more serious amateurs. …….. Good luck

Ohhh…………I forgot the bbka board of directors who’ll be upset you’re nicking their funding/donations. On the plus side room hire for the first AGM should be very reasonable!

 

[rdartington]

The problem is how to channel the direction of research not just into blue sky, but also into practically applicable areas. In NZ up until the 1980s there was a government department called the DSIR which, together with Massey University in particular, formed that bridge between the purely theoretical and the practical...

This is so true. And an encouraging example.
IMHO Research should aim to improve understanding on the reservoir of behaviours that enable a colony to cope with whatever variations the weather throws at it.
I would suggest breaking down the annual cycle of the colony into steps. On swarming - emergence of drones, kick-in of urge to reproduce, formation of group of scouts, building of queen cups, persuading queen to lay in cups, easing off feeding the queen to reduce weight for flight, starting to build the swarm inside the hive by holding back bees about to start as foragers, sendinding out scouts to discover vacant cavities, sealing the first queen cell, driving out of the swarm bees by the scouts - each bee knows if it is a swarm bee or a parent bee, driving out the queen, clustering to attract the queen to join the cluster, agreeement within scouts on best cavity, dividing resources on comb building v foraging to form new nest.
How much do we know/understand about each step? And how to guide the swarming process to be more successful - 3/4 of natural swarms are dead within a year. Seeley has researched much about natural cavities in a forest - but do we even understand using bait hives to achieve 100% capture?
When rehoming a captured swarm, how much to feed to help new comb building - too little and the new colony may struggle - too much and it canbuild too much drone comb for quick storage at expense of worker comb for brood. And so on - and on .

 

[rdartington]

I wasn't. I know nothing of those institutions firsthand.

What I was doing was responding to your idea of an organisation, of which, non membership would potentially result in the beekeeper being seen as a cowboy, to use your word.

Now, that could only be the case if membership was in some way restricted to people holding certain qualifications or, in the early years, something akin to grandfather's rights. Otherwise, if anyone could join subject only to paying a fee why would the others be seen as cowboys?

Yes you are right.
Ordinary Membership of the Civil Engineers for example is determined by examination/interview of work experience. Directors of firms qualify for higher membership grade. Prospective members gaining enough experience can join first as associate members. Civil engineers who do not pass have failed to make the grade - they are the cowboys. All this may be a bit out of date - I was admitted 60 years ago - but I would be surprised if the principles have changed.

 

[rdartington]

Ohhh…………I forgot the bbka board of directors who’ll be upset you’re nicking their funding/donations. On the plus side room hire for the first AGM should be very reasonable!

before Ian ‘s post above he posted that I had alienated queen breeders, commercial beekeepers and serious amateurs. He gave no evidence ..
posts in this debate have been all about how BBKA does not manage to fill the bill for an organisation to take British beekeeping forward.
Change always upsets some = but stagnation is not a perfect alternative.
any serious investigation into launching a British Institute would visit Slovenia to see how that has come to be recognised as the best in the EU.
I dont see how queen breeders, commercial beekeepers or serious amateurs would miss out. They would not be superceded.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

This is so true. And an encouraging example.
IMHO Research should aim to improve understanding on the reservoir of behaviours that enable a colony to cope with whatever variations the weather throws at it.
I would suggest breaking down the annual cycle of the colony into steps. On swarming - emergence of drones, kick-in of urge to reproduce, formation of group of scouts, building of queen cups, persuading queen to lay in cups, easing off feeding the queen to reduce weight for flight, starting to build the swarm inside the hive by holding back bees about to start as foragers, sendinding out scouts to discover vacant cavities, sealing the first queen cell, driving out of the swarm bees by the scouts - each bee knows if it is a swarm bee or a parent bee, driving out the queen, clustering to attract the queen to join the cluster, agreeement within scouts on best cavity, dividing resources on comb building v foraging to form new nest.
How much do we know/understand about each step? And how to guide the swarming process to be more successful - 3/4 of natural swarms are dead within a year. Seeley has researched much about natural cavities in a forest - but do we even understand using bait hives to achieve 100% capture?
When rehoming a captured swarm, how much to feed to help new comb building - too little and the new colony may struggle - too much and it canbuild too much drone comb for quick storage at expense of worker comb for brood. And so on - and on .

all old stuff that's been covered again and again.
Have you ever heard of Professor Thomas D Seeley? that would be a good place to start.
Loads of others have also studied these behaviours.

 

[user 6228]

all old stuff that's been covered again and again.
Have you ever heard of Professor Thomas D Seeley? that would be a good place to start.
Loads of others have also studied these behaviours.

Seeley's work on nesting selection behaviours needs expanding but its not going to happen, work on tunnel entrances not going to happen, bee directed airflow in nests, not going to happen.

 

[Ian123]

before Ian ‘s post above he posted that I had alienated queen breeders, commercial beekeepers and serious amateurs. He gave no evidence ..
posts in this debate have been all about how BBKA does not manage to fill the bill for an organisation to take British beekeeping forward.
Change always upsets some = but stagnation is not a perfect alternative.
any serious investigation into launching a British Institute would visit Slovenia to see how that has come to be recognised as the best in the EU.
I dont see how queen breeders, commercial beekeepers or serious amateurs would miss out. They would not be superceded.

Robin the very fact you ask for evidence that you’ll alienate these groups or even get them to take you seriously is a worrying in itself, it’s in what you’ve written! The very fact you’ve not even mentioned the BFA is puzzling do you know who they are?You also keep offering up Slovenia, I rather think the Germans are streets ahead.
As for supcedure of those groups I doubt they’ll worry they’ll simply ignore you.

 

[pargyle]

Bees Abroad have recently changed to this format and the difference already is astounding with the increase in funds raised and support garnered already being felt.
The RYA is another organisation (that the BBKA probably believe, or aspire to resemble) I can remember a time when it was just a clique of gin soaked retired naval types and most of their 'modules' and whatever were just looked at by proffessionals with a degree of amusement or humerous tolerance. It's now a force to be reckoned with, many of their certificates being accepted and endorsed by the Maritime and Coastguard agency as professional qualifications.

Precisely and I've just had the following invitation which says it all ....

"Circulation: Area Association & Branch Secretaries and Membership Secretaries

Would you please share the details for the role of BBKA Social Media Manager with your members.

The BBKA is looking for a Social Media Manager to proactively promote the BBKA via its social media platforms including Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube.

The role will be on a self-employed basis working from home. Part-time hours averaging 10-15 hours spread over the week at £13/hour.

For more details and an application from please email: [email protected]

Kind regards

Leigh Sidaway, General Manager"

What's the expression ... Pay peanuts get monkeys ! Have they no idea how much a competent freelance social media practitioner can command in terms of salary - and more importantly - how much they can generate in traffic and potential income. Clueless ....


By comparison shelf fillers in Aldi, in my area, are getting £11.20 and hour (employed with perks - not freelance).

 

[Ian123]

Precisely and I've just had the following invitation which says it all ....

"Circulation: Area Association & Branch Secretaries and Membership Secretaries

Would you please share the details for the role of BBKA Social Media Manager with your members.

The BBKA is looking for a Social Media Manager to proactively promote the BBKA via its social media platforms including Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube.

The role will be on a self-employed basis working from home. Part-time hours averaging 10-15 hours spread over the week at £13/hour.

For more details and an application from please email: [email protected]

Kind regards

Leigh Sidaway, General Manager"

What's the expression ... Pay peanuts get monkeys ! Have they no idea how much a competent freelance social media practitioner can command in terms of salary - and more importantly - how much they can generate in traffic and potential income. Clueless ....


By comparison shelf fillers in Aldi, in my area, are getting £11.20 and hour (employed with perks - not freelance).

To late they’ve just posted up that the post is filled and the lucky winner