Whats falling down the gap between the NBU and the BBKA?

[roche]

Seems to me there are already too many beekeeping organisations in the UK. It causes the effect of effort to be dissipated across them, with fewer beneficial outcomes. There should be heavy duty Government led research, with technology transfer to the private and hobbyist sectors.

 

[pargyle]

Whatever happens it will probably boil down again to another hobbyist's club run by a few 'willing' persons pushing their own agendas, who invariably turn out to be the worse choice for the job

Unless you have a properly paid and qualified Executive and run things on a commercial basis organisations such as the BBKA will continue to remain static and inward looking. It is a huge commitment to become part of a volunteer committee ... and inevitably, the people you want driving these organisations have wider interests and are reluctant to give time freely. The status quo will exist as the people who do get involved are often those without real vision and who are only accountable to a committee of like minded people. Any organisation needs a proper CEO and a team of experts - the most successful charities in the UK run as commercial organisations but there is a cost to this. The BBKA seems to lack the people, the desire, or the impetus to turn itself into a truly dynamic force within British Beekeeping. It's a classic example of an organism that has not changed, substantially, over time.

It's going to survive but I wonder what the real benefit for the majortity of its members currently is ? The insurance - Perhaps ?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Any organisation needs a proper CEO and a team of experts - the most successful charities in the UK run as commercial organisations but there is a cost to this. The BBKA seems to lack the people, the desire, or the impetus to turn itself into a truly dynamic force

Bees Abroad have recently changed to this format and the difference already is astounding with the increase in funds raised and support garnered already being felt.
The RYA is another organisation (that the BBKA probably believe, or aspire to resemble) I can remember a time when it was just a clique of gin soaked retired naval types and most of their 'modules' and whatever were just looked at by proffessionals with a degree of amusement or humerous tolerance. It's now a force to be reckoned with, many of their certificates being accepted and endorsed by the Maritime and Coastguard agency as professional qualifications.

 

[rolande]

Members could support the Institute with membership fees that were a reasonable response to the benefits obtained in their beekeeping which brings each beekeeper a cash return. I was a member of the Institution of Civil Engineers, so able to put MICE after my name and get appropriate employment. Members able to put MIBB after their names might get opportunity to put hives on land then denied to ‘cowboys’ as non-members might start to be regarded.

Recipe for failure.
Education is one thing, closed shop shenanigans something else.

 

[roche]

Recipe for failure.
Education is one thing, closed shop shenanigans something else.

One possibility is to use the basic examination (or similar) as a prerequisite for insurance...

 

[rdartington]

Recipe for failure.
Education is one thing, closed shop shenanigans something else.

You cant just dismiss the large number of Institutes/Institutions as a closed shop.
The British Institute og Innkeepers has run for 40 years, they say, membership of the willing.
The Institution of Civil Engineers has 95,000 members world-wide. It awards professional qualifications, leads debate about infrastructure and the built environment, promotes training knowledge and thinking. See website.
Wikipedia lists 30 Chartered Institutes, 9 Institutions, and a hge number of similar orgs.
Beekeeping is part of farming - pigs only get a National Pig Association.

the difference between activities that have flourishing memberships and mere ‘associations’ is, I suspect, that the subject is taken seriously. That high standards, openess and steady progress are essential for the good of mankind. Despite beekeepeing also being a serious matter, as honeybees are the prime pollinators of 70 of the worlds major food plants, this forum shows many beekeepers are only frivolous.

 

[Lolly Bee]

I did air my long held view that neither BBKA nor NBU address ongoing improvement of beekeeping in UK. BBKA is stuck on beekeeping as it was, held back unfortunately by the rigidity of its excellent training and educational modules. BBKA is also held back by being an amalgam of local Associations, some going back to before BBKA was formed in the 1860’s. I attended BBKA ADM’s fpsome years as my county association rep, - and shuddered when members refused increasing the very low sub to fund the Budget. NBU does an excellent job in disease and hornet control but that is about all. so, yes, I do long for a new body, an Institute for British Beekeeping, to promote steady improvement of beekeeping in line with changes in science, in culture, in the economy , in the environment.

IMHO, an Institute could define separate ‘bee environment areas’, tp replace county boundaries that have no sense now County officers are no more - better London, South East. South West, South Wales etc up to Shetlands. Suitability of hives, bee strains, management practices depend on the local environment that itself depends on geology and latitude.

A university within each area could have a professor of beekeeping, bringing academic rigour into the experiments and trials needed to respond to steady change, for instance, marketing of a new varroa treatment.

Members could support the Institute with membership fees that were a reasonable response to the benefits obtained in their beekeeping which brings each beekeeper a cash return. I was a member of the Institution of Civil Engineers, so able to put MICE after my name and get appropriate employment. Members able to put MIBB after their names might get opportunity to put hives on land then denied to ‘cowboys’ as non-members might start to be regarded.
When th Golden hive was developed in Germany, 100 were tested before the launch. Some Members of the Institute could allocate 2 or more hives for research, with the same number of controls, so an innovation could immediately be tested in 100 or more hives distributed across an area before being marketed.
Queen rearing could be localised, to suit each ‘bee environment area rather than nationally or inter-nationally. The best Bees for Scotland and the Isle of Wight are almost certainly different.
And so on ……

I love the idea of Uni profs but with uni fees added to the cost of beekeeping ... hmm. And also what would we do with all those opinions?!

 

[rdartington]

Seems to me there are already too many beekeeping organisations in the UK. It causes the effect of effort to be dissipated across them, with fewer beneficial outcomes. There should be heavy duty Government led research, with technology transfer to the private and hobbyist sectors.

Yes. Many associations but little co-ordination. The heavy research should not however be government led - that means decided by a minister on advice from civil servants. The research programme should be led by a professor and carried out by well-chosen experienced proficients.
As could/would happen with a new well-managed Institute.

 

[Erichalfbee]

The research programme should be led by a professor

LASI and Prof Ratnieks?

 

[roche]

Yes. Many associations but little co-ordination. The heavy research should not however be government led - that means decided by a minister on advice from civil servants. The research programme should be led by a professor and carried out by well-chosen experienced proficients.
As could/would happen with a new well-managed Institute.

The problem is how to channel the direction of research not just into blue sky, but also into practically applicable areas. In NZ up until the 1980s there was a government department called the DSIR which, together with Massey University in particular, formed that bridge between the purely theoretical and the practical...

 

[Ian123]

LASI and Prof Ratnieks?

Mmmmmmm……………I’m struggling to think of something that won’t get me banned
I may have to get back to you!

 

[madasafish]

Well when I look at the practical aspects of beekeeping : eg hive design, queen rearing et c I see zero improvements made by ANY beekeeping Association in the UK but a lot made either by individuals or commercial enterprises - but basically very few from the UK. ## The Dark Ages reign.

(Oh I forget the National Hive designed during the war: and a monstrosity by any measure. And that was over 80 years ago)

## see poly hives, and basically all commercial honey processing equipment: As for queen breeding!

 

[blackcloud]

I already HAVE the monopoly on selling patented HOLES ... I am writing to my solicitor wirth a view to issuing a cease and desist restraining order on any suppliers purporting to be selling FAKE HOLES.

My holes are superior quality and only available from Argyle Enterprises ... beware of cheap imitations.

I was apprenticed to an R&D department for a while and one time the drawing office bod popped by with an amendment to the current project.
"Put some lightening holes in the lower beams" he said.
"I'll put them in at my own speed thank you,now bugger off" ,said the old fitter.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The trouble is, any new 'institute' will need funding and initial input from somewhere - and we all know where that will come from, it will have the sticky fingers of the BBKA and its vested interest involved, combined with ministerial interference as they can see another opportunity to siphon funds off.
Apart from that, it's a pipe dream, and even if it did happen, would serve no purpose worth the effort

 

[rolande]

You cant just dismiss the large number of Institutes/Institutions as a closed shop.

I wasn't. I know nothing of those institutions firsthand.

What I was doing was responding to your idea of an organisation, of which, non membership would potentially result in the beekeeper being seen as a cowboy, to use your word.

Now, that could only be the case if membership was in some way restricted to people holding certain qualifications or, in the early years, something akin to grandfather's rights. Otherwise, if anyone could join subject only to paying a fee why would the others be seen as cowboys?

 

[user 6228]

Well when I look at the practical aspects of beekeeping : eg hive design, queen rearing et c I see zero improvements made by ANY beekeeping Association in the UK but a lot made either by individuals or commercial enterprises - but basically very few from the UK. ## The Dark Ages reign.

(Oh I forget the National Hive designed during the war: and a monstrosity by any measure. And that was over 80 years ago)

## see poly hives, and basically all commercial honey processing equipment: As for queen breeding!

BBKA Funding is for genetics, viruses and diseases. Basic research for input into hive design No

 

[Erichalfbee]

Mmmmmmm……………I’m struggling to think of something that won’t get me banned
I may have to get back to you!

 

[rdartington]

I love the idea of Uni profs but with uni fees added to the cost of beekeeping ... hmm. And also what would we do with all those opinions?!

Running a proper beekeeping institute would cost money for central staff, assisted by volunteers for some activities such as sending out newsletters. - but it could be shown to be worthwhile. There are 45,000 beekeepers in UK, 5,000 may be serious, willing to pay say £100 to 250 pa. King Charles would be a suitable patron, keeps hives at Buckingham Palace and at Highgrove - would pass being active patron to a minor royal. The public would join even when not engaged but appreciative of the importance. I pay National Trust £120pa, English Heritage, British Museum £70, Ramblers Association £20 - only a casual user of all But keen they should flourish. There is huge public interest now in bees - watch TV, the camera keeps slipping to the bee on a flower. The Institute would have a network of sites open to the public on Open Days, edu programmes for children in holidays.

Like Christianity, a UK beekeeping institute has not failed, it has never been tried. Google Slovenia, there 1 in 200 keeps bees, 1 in 1000 in UK. University professors lead research, bans queen imports, best beekeeping in EU. In UK, beekeeping was left to the peasants , who finally swopped skeps for Nationals - except that was true in 1920 but now beekeeping attracts educated people who like to dabble and buy a Omlet beehaus, a plastic toy that arrives in a big box needing only the legs to be attached. Excellent website (I wrote much of it!).

But it would need to be properly set up, proper management structure, not a fumbling mess. Yes, not how beekeeping associations are run. That’s the point. BBKA will never put a beekeeper on the moon, however long we waited. An Institute might quite quickly improve the standard of queens, matched to the varying needs of the differing parts of UK, and ban imports. Alternative ways of managing key operations, (such as renewing brood combs, 1/3 annually or 100% every 3 years) would be tested to drive out failing traditions.

All it would need is some courage and for a small group of effective ‘do-ers’ to get together, as they did in the 1860’s to found BBKA - but did not get that one quite right.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

LASI and Prof Ratnieks?

what the typhoid Mary of beekeeping?!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Omlet beehaus, a plastic toy that arrives in a big box

At least you get something useful out of the transaction. That and an overpriced, over hyped plastic white elephant to keep your beers cool in