Whats falling down the gap between the NBU and the BBKA?

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The BBKA has c 28,000 members.

At last count their petition on honey labelling had less than 11,000 signatories after 6 months.

Which rather sums up membership attitudes: we are only here for the beer err insurance.
 
you are still getting damp kills more than cold in and you need to to ventilate in winter in the NBU documents on their website.
Some of our suppliers of hive equipment don't help. I have bought two roofs for wood nationals, they have vents incorporated in them with no option for an unvented variant. Need to seal up the vents.

New beekeepers come startup and from the get go even brand new hives still have ventilation. I am glad I am a poly hive keeper which have no vents. Had to get two roofs as a new appiary came with wood hives.
 
Some of our suppliers of hive equipment don't help. I have bought two roofs for wood nationals, they have vents incorporated in them with no option for an unvented variant. Need to seal up the vents.

I had to buy some replacements recently. They had a channel cut in two of the sides and channels cut in the sheet for the roof to match. I just made them with the roof sheet the other way up so the channels get sealed off.

James
 
I had to buy some replacements recently. They had a channel cut in two of the sides and channels cut in the sheet for the roof to match. I just made them with the roof sheet the other way up so the channels get sealed off.

James
:iagree: I've been doing that for years - the suppliers are between a rock and a hard place really, ifthey apply common sense and stop milling in the vents then the hordes of mantra chanters will cause a stink and demand they are put back - it's far easier for them to carry on, knowing that thinking beekeepers will find a solution (which does not include either matchsticks or shook swarming)
 
:iagree: I've been doing that for years - the suppliers are between a rock and a hard place really, ifthey apply common sense and stop milling in the vents then the hordes of mantra chanters will cause a stink and demand they are put back - it's far easier for them to carry on, knowing that thinking beekeepers will find a solution (which does not include either matchsticks or shook swarming)
Sell both, charge more for roofs with holes due to the extra work.
 
actually ventilation of a wooden roof is good idea so long as bee occupied space is insulated and sealed. it protects the roof . if you are cunning reduce the space between the roof and insulation down to 10mm
 
actually ventilation of a wooden roof is good idea so long as bee occupied space is insulated and sealed. it protects the roof .
Not really - insulation gets glued to the inside of the roof. Never had an issue in needing to 'protect' any of my roofs
 
How much could they charge for a hole? @pargyle would have the answer and a cunning plan to supply them in a brown envelope
I already HAVE the monopoly on selling patented HOLES ... I am writing to my solicitor wirth a view to issuing a cease and desist restraining order on any suppliers purporting to be selling FAKE HOLES.

My holes are superior quality and only available from Argyle Enterprises ... beware of cheap imitations.
 
I think the point of this thread, based I assume, on something which @rdartington had written earlier in the day is that there's room, some might argue a need, for a professional level of beekeeping education. No need to disrupt the associations and their own in house training which would continue no doubt as they are.
I did air my long held view that neither BBKA nor NBU address ongoing improvement of beekeeping in UK. BBKA is stuck on beekeeping as it was, held back unfortunately by the rigidity of its excellent training and educational modules. BBKA is also held back by being an amalgam of local Associations, some going back to before BBKA was formed in the 1860’s. I attended BBKA ADM’s fpsome years as my county association rep, - and shuddered when members refused increasing the very low sub to fund the Budget. NBU does an excellent job in disease and hornet control but that is about all. so, yes, I do long for a new body, an Institute for British Beekeeping, to promote steady improvement of beekeeping in line with changes in science, in culture, in the economy , in the environment.

IMHO, an Institute could define separate ‘bee environment areas’, tp replace county boundaries that have no sense now County officers are no more - better London, South East. South West, South Wales etc up to Shetlands. Suitability of hives, bee strains, management practices depend on the local environment that itself depends on geology and latitude.

A university within each area could have a professor of beekeeping, bringing academic rigour into the experiments and trials needed to respond to steady change, for instance, marketing of a new varroa treatment.

Members could support the Institute with membership fees that were a reasonable response to the benefits obtained in their beekeeping which brings each beekeeper a cash return. I was a member of the Institution of Civil Engineers, so able to put MICE after my name and get appropriate employment. Members able to put MIBB after their names might get opportunity to put hives on land then denied to ‘cowboys’ as non-members might start to be regarded.
When th Golden hive was developed in Germany, 100 were tested before the launch. Some Members of the Institute could allocate 2 or more hives for research, with the same number of controls, so an innovation could immediately be tested in 100 or more hives distributed across an area before being marketed.
Queen rearing could be localised, to suit each ‘bee environment area rather than nationally or inter-nationally. The best Bees for Scotland and the Isle of Wight are almost certainly different.
And so on ……
 
I did air my long held view that neither BBKA nor NBU address ongoing improvement of beekeeping in UK. BBKA is stuck on beekeeping as it was, held back unfortunately by the rigidity of its excellent training and educational modules. BBKA is also held back by being an amalgam of local Associations, some going back to before BBKA was formed in the 1860’s. I attended BBKA ADM’s fpsome years as my county association rep, - and shuddered when members refused increasing the very low sub to fund the Budget. NBU does an excellent job in disease and hornet control but that is about all. so, yes, I do long for a new body, an Institute for British Beekeeping, to promote steady improvement of beekeeping in line with changes in science, in culture, in the economy , in the environment.

IMHO, an Institute could define separate ‘bee environment areas’, tp replace county boundaries that have no sense now County officers are no more - better London, South East. South West, South Wales etc up to Shetlands. Suitability of hives, bee strains, management practices depend on the local environment that itself depends on geology and latitude.

A university within each area could have a professor of beekeeping, bringing academic rigour into the experiments and trials needed to respond to steady change, for instance, marketing of a new varroa treatment.

Members could support the Institute with membership fees that were a reasonable response to the benefits obtained in their beekeeping which brings each beekeeper a cash return. I was a member of the Institution of Civil Engineers, so able to put MICE after my name and get appropriate employment. Members able to put MIBB after their names might get opportunity to put hives on land then denied to ‘cowboys’ as non-members might start to be regarded.
When th Golden hive was developed in Germany, 100 were tested before the launch. Some Members of the Institute could allocate 2 or more hives for research, with the same number of controls, so an innovation could immediately be tested in 100 or more hives distributed across an area before being marketed.
Queen rearing could be localised, to suit each ‘bee environment area rather than nationally or inter-nationally. The best Bees for Scotland and the Isle of Wight are almost certainly different.
And so on ……
Some lovely ideas that unfortunately will never happen. Try and get three beekeeers to agree on anything... that's before you explore the possibilities of dismantling the dyed in the wool ideas of the vast majority of UK Hobbyist beekeepers ... and the slow winds of change - even to those ideas which are PROVEN to be of benefit.
 
Some lovely ideas that unfortunately will never happen. Try and get three beekeeers to agree on anything... that's before you explore the possibilities of dismantling the dyed in the wool ideas of the vast majority of UK Hobbyist beekeepers ... and the slow winds of change - even to those ideas which are PROVEN to be of benefit.
So I need to start insulating my hives with dyed wool you say? :unsure: Got it.
 
So I need to start insulating my hives with dyed wool you say? :unsure: Got it.
Well ....you could but you would have to buy my patented dyed wool beehive insulation .... another Argyle Enterprises first ... beware cheap imitations !
 
Whatever happens it will probably boil down again to another hobbyist's club run by a few 'willing' persons pushing their own agendas, who invariably turn out to be the worse choice for the job
 
more like died in the wool ideas
Sadly, I fear you are correct. Time does not stand still, knowledge and experience lead to better practice and things evolve - if you don't evolve the best you can hope for is to survive whilst doing what you have always done - whilst those who evolve grow and thrive.

You only have to look, very briefly, at history to see the effect of static ideas ... The British Motorcyle industry in the 1960's and early 70's, The Pharmacy and Food sectors of British retailing, The UK Bed and Breakfast sector, Farming in the UK and many others. The smaller enterprises that have not changed have gone - the ones who survive and thrived have changed .. and continue to evolve.

Small beekeeping enterprises - be it hobbyist or small Bee Farmer - need to take every opportunity to improve and evolve ... standing still is rarely an option.
 
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