what to do with a mated queen?

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McNulty

New Bee
Joined
Sep 2, 2013
Messages
48
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0
Location
southport
Hive Type
Langstroth
Number of Hives
10
This could be a long one so please bear with me.

I performed an AS a while back. In the original or parent hive I thought I had left only one queen cell. It was due to hatch 16 days ago. around the day it was due to hatch I had a quick peek in the hive to see if the QC was still capped, it was. I don't know why but I decided to have a quick check through a few other frames to see what had been happening because I hadn't looked in the hive in a while. At this point the hive is a triple langstroth medium hive. (the old queen and her flyers are happy in their new langstroth deep home). On another frame I then found another capped queen cell, no doubt due to emerge imminently. How on earth I missed it I don't know. I have gone from 2 to 5 hives this summer and I didn't want to make another hive up so I pulled the queen cell down with my little finger nail. As the cell landed by feet I saw the rear end of the queen and she promptly walked out and settled on my shoe!

I decided I couldn't squish her so I made a little nuc up. I took one box from the parent hive, put on a roof and a floor and bunged her in. There was probably only 3 or 4 frames of bees to give her and no frames of capped brood so I made sure there was plenty of stores and I pinched a frame of capped brood from another hive for them. I placed both of these hives side by side and hoped the flyers would split themselves equally. I went back to the hive about an hour later and there is a queen outside on the landing board right in the middle of the two hives! no attendees, just sat on her own for about 5 mins. She then goes into the parent hive and then after 30 seconds comes back out and sits between the hives again, twiddling her thumbs. I now have no idea whether this is the queen I handled or not so I dont know which hive she came from. I had a flash of inspiration and checked whether the capped QC in the parent hive was still capped, it was, so I picked her up and put her back in the newly made nuc.

Ok still with me? after 10 more days I decide to have a quick look in the hives to see if there are any signs of eggs ( I know its early but im impatient). In the freshly made nuc they have made three new queen cells out of the capped brood I gave them!! I tried to find out if bees sometimes make emergency QC's just in case the virgin queen is duff or dies in her mating flight? maybe they are just back up QC's and the new queen is still there? After a while I decided bees wont do this and they must be queenless, the QC's cant be good ones so I squish them. Had the queen returned to the parent hive again? I dunno. Anyway I ordered a new queen from ged marshall. The parent hive had no signs of eggs at this point either.

I popped the new queen in the nuc last friday, accompanied by her half a dozen friends. I left attendants in with the queen in my first queen introduction earlier this year and all went well so I did the same again. On sat morning I removed the end cap. I was bored this afternoon so I thought I would have a quick check to see if the queen cage was clear and maybe see if I could spot the marked queen. As I pulled up the cage I notice all the bees are still in it and dead.... apart from the queen. The candy hadnt been completely eaten away and there was a dead bee blocking any exit. Had they been killed? had they starved or dehydrated after five days being trapped in? surely the other bees would have looked after them if they had wanted to? I took the cage to the kitchen table and removed the dead bees. Quite a few were dead with their stings out. Not a great sign but does this necessarily mean they died fighting? I would guess so. Why is the queen alive? Have they attended her but killed her friends? I dunno. I go back through the nuc and look to see if there is a queen present. They were making queen cells a week ago so I was amazed to now see about 100 eggs!! Have I got a laying worker was my first thought? There was one cell with two eggs in but all the rest only had one. I guess somehow I now have a mated queen.......

I now go through the parent hive thoroughly (twice). I don't hear what is known as the queenless hum (not that I would definitely recognise it). No eggs, no queen I can find. Has the queen that was due to hatch from in here popped across to the hive right next door? the hives are touching and maybe the flying bees or attendants can easily get confused. No eggs after 16 days isnt usual but I know its not uncommon ( I think). What do I do with the mated queen on the kitchen table? Do I make another nuc up from another hive? Do I risk putting her in the parent hive? I taped over the opening and decided to place her cage on a frame of bees from the parent hive so I could watch what happened. They instantly started feeding her through the sides of the cage and there didnt seem to be any aggression from the workers. after ten minutes of nice behaviour I popped on the roof and left her with them.

I guess she will be fine overnight but do I risk letting her out tomorrow. I could leave her in the cage for a few more days and keep checking for eggs? I could make another nuc up but I really dont want any more hives. All my other hives are happy and thriving so I guess they wouldnt accept another new queen anyway for a while.

I have read that virgin queens can be a bit dopey when it comes to returning to the wrong hive. My guess is that Ive lost a virgin, either in flight or in a scrap with another queen. I guess the parent hive is queenless. I could add a frame of eggs tonight but I don't think that will tell me anything. They either have a queen about to start laying and a queen in a cage or just a queen in a cage, in either case I don't think they would make emergency cells.

This is my fourth month of bees! I've learned and read so much (you might think otherwise now! lol). If you have any advice or notice I have missed anything important I would love to hear from you, especially Oliver and Finman, haha... great site too!!!
 
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BBKA news this month has an article about using a caged queen as a diagnostic aid. The fact the workers took to the queen in the cage suggests that they were in fact queen less.
 
A nicely written post.

Seems as if you have probably done all that you can...If it was me I'd just sit back and see what happens.
 
BBKA news this month has an article about using a caged queen as a diagnostic aid. The fact the workers took to the queen in the cage suggests that they were in fact queen less.

I put a queen in cage on a nuc that had been Q- for 24 hours. The workers were very calm and attentive towards her so I released her. All's well.
 
quick update after a week.

I let the queen out of the cage in the parent hive the following day (6 days ago). I actually took her out of the cage myself and placed her on the frame where the bees that had been feeding her were. I wanted to see how the bees reacted to her, she had been in a cage for about 5 or 6 days at this point and she seemed really weak as she walked slowly around the frame being fed. I hoped she wasnt too weak that the bees thought she was duff. All seemed pretty well though so I shut up shop again.

I checked today and I have three full frames of eggs and larvae, job done. She came marked but at the time the green paint was already starting to fade. I found the laying queen today and she wasnt marked. I have introduced two mated queens this year and I have had to remark both of them after a short while as the paint had completely come off. I am not definite but I am pretty sure it was the bought in queen. I hope so anyway!

I think my instinct were right about the nucleus, I am now almost positive there are laying workers. I must have left it too long without brood. All drone brood now and a scattered pattern of eggs. There are still quite a few cells with one egg in but cells with multiple eggs far outnumber them. There is a good page on michael bush's website about laying workers. It's getting really late in the year now to try and open mate a queen and have her produce enough bees to get them through winter I think but I couldn't just shake them out without trying. I have given them a frame of eggs and larvae from a strong hive and I can see how they respond to that.

On another note, my one honey producing stock has already given me 60lbs of honey this year and it has four more supers on that are at least 1/2 filled. I use wired frames and I tried about 10 frames with just a starter strip of wax too. They have all come out perfect and will be used for cut comb in the honey jars. I guess it has been a great year to start beekeeping!
 
...
It's getting really late in the year now to try and open mate a queen and have her produce enough bees to get them through winter I think but I couldn't just shake them out without trying. I have given them a frame of eggs and larvae from a strong hive and I can see how they respond to that.

I don't know what calendar you work by but I have had Queens emerge and mate in August and successfully overwinter!!
 
I agree :Easily, the weather should be good enough and then you have a very young queen rearing to go in Spring. Many colonies will supercede in August as well, so can't be a bad time for mating.
 
That's good to hear. I was just thinking that by the time they make a queen, have her emerge and mate and then her brood emerge and become foragers could be pushing it at this this time of year. Im glad there is plenty of time though because that gives me chance to give them another frame of eggs in a weeks time if they don't try and raise a queen with these. Thanks for the heads up
 

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