What is the hottest syrup that's safe for bees?

[ugcheleuce]

Hello everyone

A beekeeper gave me a tip for winter feeding in colder weather: warm up the syrup and give it to them in the morning. However, this made me wonder: just how hot can the syrup be before it is dangerous for the bees (i.e. before bees will die because they tried to drink it)? Does anyone know an answer? There must have been some studies.

Thanks
Samuel

 

[Finman]

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When bees fly, their muscle temperature is 39C.
When you give syrup, why it should be warmer.

If you make syrup so, that you have Sugar in the container, and then you add water to the same level, your water content will be correct and temperature is proper too.

IT is better first boil 3 litre water and then add 6 kg sugar. That temp will be proper.

I make this way syrup in loundry machine. 45 kg sugar and then boiling water to the same level. And machine run!!
Syrup is ready to put into hives.

You may mix syrup with drill machine too.
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[Erichalfbee]

I put warm syrup on mine. I stick my finger in it

 

[Finman]

Hello everyone

A beekeeper gave me a tip for winter feeding in colder weather: warm up the syrup and give it to them in the morning.

I cover the feeding box with newspaper sheets that box does not loose heat during night. Or something else paper. It is worth to do. If bees leave the box, it takes time to next afternoon that syrup warms up again.

 

[snelgrove]

when feeding syrup in the spring I think the fact it's warmer tender to entice the bees to it, for autumn feeding I don't think it matters.

 

[Finman]

when feeding syrup in the spring I think the fact it's warmer tender to entice the bees to it, for autumn feeding I don't think it matters.

I know it matters, but I do not know about Holland.

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[ugcheleuce]

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It is better first boil 3 litre water and then add 6 kg sugar. That temp will be proper.

The math geniuses here must please confirm my calculation, but if the water is 100 oC and the sugar is 20 oC, then if you add 6 kg of sugar to 3 kg of water, the mixture's resultant temperature (not counting additional cooling) will be 70 oC.

specific heat of sugar = 1.244
specific heat of water = 4.186

(water g) * (water C - x) * (water specific heat) = (sugar g) * (x - sugar C) * (sugar specific heat)

i.e. (3000)(100-x)(4.186) = (6000)(x-20)(1.244)

i.e. 70 oC

1 2​

Of course, the real question is how fast does it cool...

 

[ugcheleuce]

When feeding syrup in the spring I think the fact it's warmer tender to entice the bees to it, for autumn feeding I don't think it matters.

Well, the reason for heating it is to prevent it from cooling so much that the bees don't like the it anymore because the it (the syrup) is too cold.

 

[snelgrove]

Well, the reason for heating it is to prevent it from cooling so much that the bees don't like the it anymore because the it (the syrup) is too cold.

bees like syrup wether warm or cold. I have fed nearly 1000 kg of sugar and temperature of syrup dosnt matter but I am in North East England.

 

[Finman]

The math geniuses here must please confirm my calculation, but if the water is 100 oC and the sugar is 20 oC, then if you add 6 kg of sugar to 3 kg of water, the mixture's resultant temperature (not counting additional cooling) will be 70 oC.

specific heat of sugar = 1.244
specific heat of water = 4.186

(water g) * (water C - x) * (water specific heat) = (sugar g) * (x - sugar C) * (sugar specific heat)

i.e. (3000)(100-x)(4.186) = (6000)(x-20)(1.244)

i.e. 70 oC

1 2​

Of course, the real question is how fast does it cool...

Oh dear. You know so much chemistry, and then you ask how to make syrup.

Lets split then some hairs... I know chemistry too

And what is boiling water. IT is not 100 C. When boiling sound comes from my 80 litre sauna pot, temp is perhaps 80-85C. Soud tells me that water is hot. The surface of metal is 100C.l, but not the whole water.

There is no idea actually boil the water and fill the room with steam.

When I do 60 litre syrup, sugar is perhaps 15C, laundry machine takes in some heat and water temp is what ever. When ready, I can put my finger into syrup.

I never calculate these. I just do.

If it is more important to write everything exactly than make practical syrup, let it be so. However syrup making is not bigger issue than life itself..

 

[Finman]

bees like syrup wether warm or cold. I have fed nearly 1000 kg of sugar.

I feed annually 600 kg sugar, and I know that there is big difference, how warm I give it to bees. I need not to mix any thymol in syrup and I am not afraid that my syrup ferments, because it does not.

I feed only warm syrup. So bees take it faster to the hive. They take in 10 litres a day. 2 days, and one box hive is full fed.

Our nights are sometimes near zero and sometimes 12C.

 

[Finman]

Well, the reason for heating it is to prevent it from cooling so much that the bees don't like the it anymore because the it (the syrup) is too cold.

Yeah... Bees leave the feeder and retreet to protect brood downstairs

 

[Hivemaker.]

I feed only warm syrup. So bees take it faster to the hive. They take in 10 litres a day. 2 days, and one box hive is full fed.

How do you keep the syrup warm enough, do you only feed one litre at a time, or do take the syrup off the bees and pop it into a saucepan to warm it back up every couple of hours.

 

[Finman]

How do you keep the syrup warm enough, do you only feed one litre at a time, or do take the syrup off the bees and pop it into a saucepan to warm it back up every couple of hours.

I do not know. I just do and I do not wonder.

I fill 8 litres feeder and bees suck it. When it is empty, I fill it again. No one knows anything, how it happens. Just good luck....everything.

Now I have new 15 litre poly feeders.. Good advices wellcome! Say at least good luck...

 

[ugcheleuce]

Oh dear. You know so much chemistry, and then you ask how to make syrup.

I know nothing of chemistry but you're the one that answered my "how hot" question by giving the variables "3 kg sugar" and "6 kg water" so I had no choice but to calculate the answer from that myself.

 

[ugcheleuce]

Well, the reason for heating it is to prevent it from cooling so much that the bees don't like the it anymore because the it (the syrup) is too cold.

Yeah... Bees leave the feeder and retreat to protect brood downstairs

That could be a reason, yes. But during the day, when they might also decide to fly out, I'm told they also refuse to take up sugar syrup if it (the syrup) is too cold.

 

[Finman]

That could be a reason, yes. But during the day, when they might also decide to fly out, I'm told they also refuse to take up sugar syrup if it (the syrup) is too cold.

Oh dear..... What are you trying... Everything what I write is wrong

You are told but I have seen them going and coming 53 years. All hives have taken their Winter sugar.

Yes, they do not take too cold syrup, because they leave the feeder. The heat of hive rises to the feeder anf keep ut warm.

Sometimes a colony have started its wintering and refuse sucking the syrup.
That is why I weigh the hives and I look that they all really have enough

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[Finman]

The math geniuses here must please confirm my calculation, but ...

Of course, the real question is how fast does it cool...

IT takes its own time to cool.

As I said, when you add boiling water to Sugar, you need not to calculate. Temp will be suitable to fill feeders..

 

[Michael Palmer]

Well, to start with, you shouldn't be feeding syrup in the winter. Feed it in Autumn, and enough so the bees are done with it and they can cluster for the winter with nothing to do but cluster.

Feeding warm syrup on cold days is problematic because the bees will be encouraged to fly. Not a good thing on cold days. I'm with HM. How do you keep it warm, anyway. If you feed with gallon cans (contact feeders) on the top bars, the bees will cluster around and on the cans, warming the syrup. It actually stays quite warm. Feeding on the crown board, or with hive top feeders, does't accomplish the same warming.

Right now, we're weighing hives and feeding what 2:1 syrup is necessary. OMG, they're heavy this year. Over-weight. Many 190-210lb. Supposed to be 155-160 minimum. But, if they need 2 or 3 gallons of feed, they get it now. Done.

Winter is for contemplation and rest and shop work. Not for worrying and fretting, and feeding bees syrup.

 

[Finman]

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How is your autumn going there? Trees here are turning yellow now with speed and after one week they use to fall down.

I weigh my 2 box hives only one side and the weigh is good minimum 50 and max 60 lbs.
One box hives I feed as much as they stop taking.
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Only problem in my feeding is that I am now 2 weeks late. But weathers are good, 15-20C and nights about 10C.
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