What exactly is the law about stolen bees?

[oxnatbees]

I see people mention theft of hives or bees sometimes. In one case someone mentioned they had tracked down their marked frames which were inside the hives of a suspect, which they checked at night. I was wondering what the legal situation here is - what reprisals can be taken against such thieves. I can imagine the local BKA would expel such people. But is it a crime? I note that people in this sub-forum never seem to consider bringing the police into the matter.

The answer I would like to see is "you can report this to the police, there is an ancient law which treats it like cattle rustling, the perpetrator is subjected to Trial By Bee-sting and if found guilty, branded".

I fear a more likely answer is "the police are not interested but it is illegal, you can bring a private prosecution"

Or possibly "the law treats them as wild animals, you cant steal them (though you can steal the frames), it is dealt with as a civil case not a criminal one".

Anyone here actually know?

 

[Hivemaker.]

I note that people in this sub-forum never seem to consider bringing the police into the matter.

I did, and i know a few others who have, they are a complete waste of time, if you want something doing, you need to do it yourself.

 

[itma]

Legally, managed honeybees are only considered "wild animals" while in the process of swarming.

However, proving ownership of bees isn't easy.
Easier with frames and hive parts.

Generally, I have the impression that bee rustling isn't very high on the list of Police priorities.

 

[madasafish]

Our sovereign Lord and estates of this present parliament ... statutise and ordain that whosoever ... steals bees, or fishes in private ponds and lochs, shall be called and confined therefor as a breaker of the law ... before ... any ... ordinary magistrate within this realm ... and the penalty to be imposed and taken of the controveners before the said ordinary inferior judges ought not to exceed the sum of £40 of this realm.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft_Act_1607

 

[Nige.Coll]

Our sovereign Lord and estates of this present parliament ... statutise and ordain that whosoever ... steals bees, or fishes in private ponds and lochs, shall be called and confined therefor as a breaker of the law ... before ... any ... ordinary magistrate within this realm ... and the penalty to be imposed and taken of the controveners before the said ordinary inferior judges ought not to exceed the sum of £40 of this realm.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft_Act_1607

£40 lol that's insulting.

 

[oxnatbees]

Interesting answers - thank you

The Theft Act seems to be a Scottish Act so may not apply down where I live!

£40 would have been a lot then.

 

[mbc]

,,,, if you want something doing, you need to do it yourself.

Amateur!
First rule about feeding f'kin bee thieves to the piggs club, is we don't talk about feeding f'kin bee thieves to the piggs club!

 

[For want of a better word]

Legally, managed honeybees are only considered "wild animals" while in the process of swarming.

However, proving ownership of bees isn't easy.
Easier with frames and hive parts.

Generally, I have the impression that bee rustling isn't very high on the list of Police priorities.

Legally, managed honeybees are only considered "wild animals" while in the process of swarming.
BUT still are the property of the beekeeper until he looses sight of them, but you can not go onto someone elses property unless permission has been given??

 

[Nige.Coll]

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/60/contents


not much in there about bees. If they group it with fish it's a £5k maximum fine.

 

[itma]

Legally, managed honeybees are only considered "wild animals" while in the process of swarming.
BUT still are the property of the beekeeper until he looses sight of them,

That is supposed to be the custom and practice (code of conduct sort of thing) between beekeepers, but IIRC it doesn't have any legal standing.

but you can not go onto someone elses property unless permission has been given??

As always.
However, "if you've come about those bl**dy bees" you might be welcome.


/// And with modern hives plus swarm control skills, the situation would never arise, would it? (I've got a very persistent cough today ...)

 

[thebeeman]

We had a case last year when someone stole queens from mating nucs
they just took the queen no frames and caused no damage and were also filmed on CCTV. According to the police If they had damaged or taken a single frame game on. But as the law stands with bees being insects and no legal claim to ownership to insects being recognised there is nothing that can be done.

 

[Chris B]

"No legal claim to ownership".

If this is what the police have said it's just a cop out.

 

[peteinwilts]

We had a case last year when someone stole queens from mating nucs
they just took the queen no frames and caused no damage and were also filmed on CCTV.

Was the chap wearing a white suit and hat?

There are odd laws regarding CCTV. We had a break in at my old work, and no-one was allowed to view the CCTV without the police being present.

Apparently, if it was viewed, the CCTV would be inadmissible (?!?)

unfortunately, booby traps and public lynch mobs are frowned upon.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Was the chap wearing a white suit and hat?

There are odd laws regarding CCTV. We had a break in at my old work, and no-one was allowed to view the CCTV without the police being present.

Apparently, if it was viewed, the CCTV would be inadmissible (?!?)

unfortunately, booby traps and public lynch mobs are frowned upon.

And how would previous viewing be established? It sounds like an urban myth to me.

 

[For want of a better word]

"No legal claim to ownership".

If this is what the police have said it's just a cop out.

Law in England may have changed as bees are now food producing stock

( This may also mean the beekeeper can no longer keep colonies on set aside land?)

Goes to show the average plod is not an expert in law...

 

[jd101k2000]

I have supplied CCTV footage to the police. Viewing was not a problem, but it had to be supplied to them in a format that showed it had not been tampered with.

As for reporting crime, my experience is that they will make it as difficult to report a crime as possible and, if it is not on their check list of crimes that affect their rating, they are not really interested an will not bother chasing it up. A friend recently reported shootings and intimidation. She was then told not to contact the police any more about the matter. Turned out that plod had opted for and easy life and not submitted his paperwork and didn't want this discovered. When he was discovered he got a scolding.... whereas my friend had been in fear of her life. Not really fair. Not really a police SERVICE. Not really fit for purpose.

 

[itma]

We had a case last year when someone stole queens from mating nucs
they just took the queen no frames and caused no damage and were also filmed on CCTV. According to the police If they had damaged or taken a single frame game on. But as the law stands with bees being insects and no legal claim to ownership to insects being recognised there is nothing that can be done.

I believe that to be factually inaccurate.

I would want to know of any specific legal basis for the statement, because there are precedents to the contrary.

See for example Tutton v Walker, where it was accepted that the plaintiffs had property in their bees (ie they "owned" them) and had suffered loss as a result of the bees being spray-poisoned. The dispute was just about whether or not the spraying had been done with negligence.
Tutton & others v A D Walter Ltd [1986] 1 QB 61

So bees can be "property".
And the Theft Act 1968 famously defines "A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it" - regardless of what that property might be.



Given the difficulty of identifying specific insects, its hard to prove anyone to be in possession of such stolen property.
But the actual taking ("appropriation") is itself a crime, and if that was evidenced, then it should have been properly investigated by the Police.

As it was, it seems they managed to "no-crime" it and not only save themselves a lot of work, but they even kept it completely off the crime statistics.

It sounds as though you were robbed by the thief and then conned by the Police.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

no-one was allowed to view the CCTV without the police being present.

Apparently, if it was viewed, the CCTV would be inadmissible (?!?)

.

New one on me

I have supplied CCTV footage to the police. Viewing was not a problem, but it had to be supplied to them in a format that showed it had not been tampered with.
.

of course it could be a case of putting two and two together and making six by simply thinking they understand RIPA legislation. There are certain rules covering directed surveillance which if you haven't got the right authorities in place makes the evidence inadmissible (basically means all these animal rights freaks videoing hunts are the only ones in obvious breach of the law.) But unless a CCTV camera was set up specifically to record a targeted individual without a DSO in place I can't see it being a problem.

 

[jd101k2000]

Well, in our case the CCTV was of a nasty beating or murder (I really cannot remember which!) that had been caught on the CCTV of my employer. I had to prepare the footage for them according to their guidelines.

 

[Nige.Coll]

totally off topic sry.
2 years ago we had some nutter with a chainsaw in the street.
During the following fight my window was broken.
The police were called arrived 2 hours later and drove down the street, running down the middle of the road was a youth covered in blood with his t shirt off shouting run the 50 are here. not suspicious at all eh?
The police car followed him then turned around and went the opposite way even though some people were pointing at the youth. The officer then went and harassed a young man who had his moped parked on the pavement threatening to fine him. He was there because he had been knocked off it by the t shirt guy while minding his own business.
I told the officer what i thought and was threatened with arrest.
Later I had a visit from the sergeant wanting me to give evidence against one of my neighbours because he thrashed a few lads for beating his son up.
Nothing was done about the chainsaw or the gang of youths or my window and the paperwork was altered to show the responded in 40 mins.