What caused my colonies to fail?

[jenkinsbrynmair]

my point is that compared to the varroa problem that sort of event is unlikely

In a cast swarm (which these had a high probability of being) I'd say 50:50

 

[Sanntos]

There were three of them, and they all died, probably not because of different problems. And how often does a new queen fail? Not often. But maybe you are right, in this case.

 

[bobba]

That’s very kind, thank you. I’ve still got one colony so fingers crossed I’ll still have some bees in the spring and can do some splits to re-populate my empty hives...

Am glad you still have some bees.

If you lose your last hive my offer is still open.

Good luck with the splits and re-populating.

And for the record, I am merely passing on some of the kindness I have received on this forum.

 

[Antipodes]

We don't have that pesky varroa thinggy here, but small colonies and cast swarms don't always do so well, and can certainly dwindle away.

 

[Patrick1]

I think the bees had too much to do from day one. The swarms arrived on consecutive days which really took me by surprise. I could only offer them starter strips rather than full frames of foundation and despite feeding they took a long time to draw the frames.

I was away during autumn but had somebody feeding them syrup for me during October. I wonder if they could have taken too much syrup, reducing the laying space for winter bees?

Well I am sorry to be blunt but this is beekeeper error, why would you take the swarms on knowing you couldn’t care for them, I will probably get told off for being so blunt when we all want to be nice to each other but really…………..maybe a refresher course would help you.

 

[Patrick1]

That doesn’t explain the piles of dead bees, if varroa was the issue and bees dying daily the house bees would have ejected them, I am sure this is not just a varroa problem, having been given more information about starter strips and small swarm, in a full box even with dummy boards that incidentally should have been follower boards if a nuc box wasn’t available, even swarms need a little TLC. call it what you will this is neglect.

 

[Patrick1]

Yes combining colonies is something we should always consider. Unite a weak one to a strong one. No point in combining weak ones together.

The caveat is of course that we know why the smaller one is weak.

 

[Boston Bees]

That doesn’t explain the piles of dead bees, if varroa was the issue and bees dying daily the house bees would have ejected them, I am sure this is not just a varroa problem, having been given more information about starter strips and small swarm, in a full box even with dummy boards that incidentally should have been follower boards if a nuc box wasn’t available, even swarms need a little TLC. call it what you will this is neglect.

Did you sleep badly?

If you think that offering starter strips and feed, rather than foundation, is neglect, then you need to perhaps get yourself on a refresher course.

And quibbling about the terms follower board and dummy board is just internet pedantry.

He's a second year beekeeper for goodness sake. Get off your high horse.

 

[Patrick1]

Did you sleep badly?

If you think that offering starter strips and feed, rather than foundation, is neglect, then you need to perhaps get yourself on a refresher course.

And quibbling about the terms follower board and dummy board is just internet pedantry.

He's a second year beekeeper for goodness sake. Get off your high horse.

The neglect was know he was going to be home to look after them

 

[Patrick1]

Did you sleep badly?

If you think that offering starter strips and feed, rather than foundation, is neglect, then you need to perhaps get yourself on a refresher course.

And quibbling about the terms follower board and dummy board is just internet pedantry.

He's a second year beekeeper for goodness sake. Get off your high horse.

There is a huge difference between dummy and flower boards, right tool for the right job

 

[RichardK]

That doesn’t explain the piles of dead bees, if varroa was the issue and bees dying daily the house bees would have ejected them, I am sure this is not just a varroa problem, having been given more information about starter strips and small swarm, in a full box even with dummy boards that incidentally should have been follower boards if a nuc box wasn’t available, even swarms need a little TLC. call it what you will this is neglect.

Could you explain the difference between follower and dummy boards please - physically and in usage terms? A google search isn't helping me. Thornes don't offer follower boards, and in general what information is available on the web positions them as the same thing - e.g. honeybeesuite.com
Many thanks.

 

[Amari]

Could you explain the difference between follower and dummy boards please - physically and in usage terms? A google search isn't helping me. Thornes don't offer follower boards, and in general what information is available on the web positions them as the same thing - e.g. honeybeesuite.com
Many thanks.

And flower boards too - post 50 above......

 

[Erichalfbee]

Dummy boards are the same size as a frame and simply act as a hive wall but allow passage to the other side. . Follower boards block off the space entirely though I think some beekeepers seem to use the term interchangeably or even the other way round.
Suffice to say that if you are reducing the space in a hive you should use a board that blocks off the space completely.

 

[pargyle]

Did you sleep badly?

If you think that offering starter strips and feed, rather than foundation, is neglect, then you need to perhaps get yourself on a refresher course.

And quibbling about the terms follower board and dummy board is just internet pedantry.

He's a second year beekeeper for goodness sake. Get off your high horse.

I probably would not have put it quite as harshly as Patrick but, this is the main forum, not the beginners section and there is some credence in what Patrick is saying. There's nothing wrong with starter strips and feeding a swarm but ... it was a small swarm and a bit of TLC is required. A dummied down full hive is fine but the spare space needs to be filled with insulation and the space isolated from the bees with close fitting dividers (you can call them what you like as far as I'm concerned but there is a difference between a dummy board and a follower). Whether they were overfed, underfed, lacking a queen that was fully working, had too much space, too little space, were diseased, infested or were just one of those colonies that were never destined to thrive we may never know.

Neglect is too strong a word but the beekeeper does have some responsibiltity to check the progress of new colonies (regardless of where they come from). You cannot just put bees in a box, leave them to it and hope for the best. The OP is a 2 year beekeeper - anyone who says they know everything after two years is kidding themselves - we all make mistakes and this one is a learning curve .... there's no obvious answer to the OP's original question - the bees are dead, move on, learn from it and look to the future.

There is nothing more depressing for a beekeeper than to see a colony that has died out; it's not something any of us like but it happens - we will blame ourselves and that's possibly enough without our fellow beekeepers adding to the remorse.

 

[mbc]

There is a huge difference between dummy and flower boards, right tool for the right job

Right tool.
Practically no difference to a viable colony between a dummy or follower board.

Before offering a diagnosis of neglect perhaps you should review the evidence,
-nicely drawn out combs with plenty of stores,
-many dead bees on the floor,
- little evidence of a properly constructed brood nest,
- swarms collected on consecutive days.

They're cast swarms where the queens failed to mate effectively and the old swarm bees got depressed without a younger generation coming through and pestered by varroa with no hope they've just given up and died.
I do think it's important to wiggle a stick in those cells with perforated cappings just to make sure a rope of sticky brown goo doesn't pull out with them.
Highly unlikely to be foul brood with the way the bees went down but worth checking, especially if those nice combs are intended to be reused.

 

[The Poot]

And flower boards too - post 50 above......

I use flower boards which have images of plants in flower by month to inform new foragers what to look for.

 

[mbc]

I probably would not have put it quite as harshly as Patrick but, this is the main forum, not the beginners section and there is some credence in what Patrick is saying. There's nothing wrong with starter strips and feeding a swarm but ... it was a small swarm and a bit of TLC is required. A dummied down full hive is fine but the spare space needs to be filled with insulation and the space isolated from the bees with close filling dividers (you can call them what you like as far as I'm concerned but there is a difference between a dummy board and a follower). Whether they were overfed, underfed, lacking a queen that was fully working, had too much space, too little space, were diseased, infested or were just one of those colonies that were never destined to thrive we may never know.

Neglect is too strong a word but the beekeeper does have some responsibiltity to check the progress of new colonies (regardless of where they come from). You cannot just put bees in a box, leave them to it and hope for the best. The OP is a 2 year beekeeper - anyone who says they know everything after two years is kidding themselves - we all make mistakes and this one is a learning curve .... there's no obvious answer to the OP's original question - the bees are dead, move on, learn from it and look to the future.

There is nothing more depressing for a beekeeper than to see a colony that has died out; it's not something any of us like but it happens - we will blame ourselves and that's possibly enough without our fellow beekeepers adding to the remorse.

Again, look at the combs built from starter strips, nicely built and not really evidence of neglect, more that they didn't kick on from their initial founding, probably queen problems, possibly linked with the varroa load, but not much the op could have done to save the situation without spotting the problem and requeening before the swarm bees fizzled out, many very experienced beekeepers would have lost these imho.
If bees didn't die, especially cast swarms, we'd be neck deep in bees and the world couldn't breathe.

 

[Murox]

I use flower boards which have images of plants in flower by month to inform new foragers what to look for.

You're lucky! I use scavenged political signage cut to the appropriate size, mostly black and yellow I have to say.

 

[Patrick1]

Could you explain the difference between follower and dummy boards please - physically and in usage terms? A google search isn't helping me. Thornes don't offer follower boards, and in general what information is available on the web positions them as the same thing - e.g. honeybeesuite.com
Many thanks.

Flowers boards are follower boards in disguise, I am sure its in one of the books ☹

I will try to explain how we use them, the dummy board is shorter than a frame and has gaps each side. It is great for reducing the area the brood has to expand into, it will force the queen to lay up fully each frame, this allows a better use of house bees both to feed larva and keep it warm, it is also used as the first frame of all of our hives. It’s a bit like brood spreading explained in Ted Hoopers Guide to Bees and Honey

The follower board is simply to save putting a small nuc in a nuc box, it fits snugly to the sides and effectively will reduce the full brood box to whatever nuc size you want and that the space the bees can cope with.

 

[pargyle]

Again, look at the combs built from starter strips, nicely built and not really evidence of neglect, more that they didn't kick on from their initial founding, probably queen problems, possibly linked with the varroa load, but not much the op could have done to save the situation without spotting the problem and requeening before the swarm bees fizzled out, many very experienced beekeepers would have lost these imho.
If bees didn't die, especially cast swarms, we'd be neck deep in bees and the world couldn't breathe.

Yes, they were not neglected in that sense of the word ... I think I would have been checking the brood pattern fairly early on and with three small swarms (if I wanted a further colony) I would have more than likely ordered in a decent queen and combined all three into one colony and despatched any queens already in them ... easy to say that in hindsight but the old adage about 'remembering the objective you set out with, to drain the swamp, gets forgotten when you are up to your arse in alligators' comes to mind.

Second year beekeeping is the hardest year ... you usually know just enough to be dangerous by that point !