What caused my colonies to fail?

Beekeeping & Apiculture Forum

Help Support Beekeeping & Apiculture Forum:

oliver90owner 

Queen Bee
***
Joined
Jul 15, 2009
Messages
16,148
Reaction score
598
Location
Lincolnshire
Hive Type
14x12
Isn't that what nadiring is? I was of the understanding that regardless of when it's done or how long for, putting shallows under the brood is nadiring and putting them above the brood is supering.
You might ‘think’ so, but I did not. 5 or 6 frames in a box (any box) put below the brood nest for the bees to move up stores (ie the brood box had space) is not ‘nadiring’ as you should be understanding it. I could just as easily left the box empty or put an extra box with s few empty frames in it.

So think about things (a bit more) before you shpout.

If that is all (it won’t be) the varroa, it was a waste of time effort and expense. More likely to disrupt the bees from their winter slumber. A greater risk of leading to colony loss, IMO.
 

Beebe 

Survivor bee
***
Joined
Jan 18, 2021
Messages
1,430
Reaction score
1,346
Location
Scotland
Hive Type
national
Number of Hives
Owned by six
Oops meant this to go to @robmort but you’ll get the gist!

3M appear to have worked out that there is a potentially very serious issue with most beekeepers being underqualified in the assessment of the physical state of matter. ;)

Consequently, the pink cartridges, such as the 3M 80923 or 3M 60926 (as pictured in the frivolous image which first prompted some "mansplaining") are actually described by the manufacturer as being equally suitable for "Organic vapour/Acid gas"

So, whether we think we are dealing with a dangerous gas or dangerous vapour, 3M (at least) have us covered.

As a non-chemist, non-vapist and nonetity, I think everyone must check these sorts of matters for themselves; I found this page very useful.

 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 13, 2020
Messages
2,328
Reaction score
2,474
Location
West Yorkshire
Oliver talking about adding a shallow under a deep:

You might ‘think’ so, but I did not. 5 or 6 frames in a box (any box) put below the brood nest for the bees to move up stores (ie the brood box had space) is not ‘nadiring’ as you should be understanding it.

So think about things (a bit more) before you shpout.
Oliver talking about adding a shallow under a deep:

A shallow placed under a deep is, by definition, a ‘nadir’.
These may appear to be two completely inconsistent statements, but that merely proves our below-average status.
 
Last edited:

Wilco 

Village idiot
***
Joined
May 24, 2020
Messages
1,169
Reaction score
1,288
Location
Hampshire
Hive Type
national
Number of Hives
10-ish
You might ‘think’ so, but I did not. 5 or 6 frames in a box (any box) put below the brood nest for the bees to move up stores (ie the brood box had space) is not ‘nadiring’ as you should be understanding it. I could just as easily left the box empty or put an extra box with s few empty frames in it.

So think about things (a bit more) before you shpout.

If that is all (it won’t be) the varroa, it was a waste of time effort and expense. More likely to disrupt the bees from their winter slumber. A greater risk of leading to colony loss, IMO.
Would you be kind enough to explain your understanding of nadiring rather than just being abrasive?
 

Do224 

Field Bee
Joined
May 27, 2020
Messages
508
Reaction score
229
Location
Cumbria
Hive Type
national
If that is all (it won’t be) the varroa, it was a waste of time effort and expense. More likely to disrupt the bees from their winter slumber. A greater risk of leading to colony loss, IMO.
Not sure which point you’re making here. Presume it’s one of the following?

1. You’re saying I didn’t vape properly and there will be more varroa?

2.You’re saying I shouldn’t have vaped at all as there wasn’t much of a mite drop when I did (not sure how I could have predicted this before I vaped). Given everyone has been telling me that my other colonies likely perished due to varroa, it would have been a little ill advised not to treat this last surviving hive wouldn’t it?
 
Joined
Oct 13, 2020
Messages
2,328
Reaction score
2,474
Location
West Yorkshire
Not sure which point you’re making here. Presume it’s one of the following?

1. You’re saying I didn’t vape properly and there will be more varroa?

2.You’re saying I shouldn’t have vaped at all as there wasn’t much of a mite drop when I did (not sure how I could have predicted this before I vaped). Given everyone has been telling me that my other colonies likely perished due to varroa, it would have been a little ill advised not to treat this last surviving hive wouldn’t it?
Don't worry - it's just how he is. We can only speculate why.

You certainly should have vaped, given what happened to your other colonies and the use of OA strips. And there's no reason at all to think you didn't vape properly.

The fact that you have had minimal drop on this particular colony is interesting. It either shows that there are very few bees left, or it shows that this nuc happens to have naturally had a low infestation for some reason, which almost certainly explains why it is the one nuc which hasn't died! You have lost nothing by vaping, and gained some useful information.
 

Patrick1 

Field Bee
***
Joined
Nov 12, 2011
Messages
643
Reaction score
545
Location
Canterbury CT4 5HW
Hive Type
national
Number of Hives
300
I did say in an earlier post that I didn’t think it was a varroa issue, more like several issues all colliding at the same time.

As for treating prophylactically it is about the only thing you can do in winter and that is better than looking at dead bees in spring, or how good a wax moth breeder you are 😊
 
Joined
Jun 1, 2019
Messages
1,229
Reaction score
1,627
Location
Yorkshire
Hive Type
wbc
Number of Hives
12
3M appear to have worked out that there is a potentially very serious issue with most beekeepers being underqualified in the assessment of the physical state of matter. ;)

Consequently, the pink cartridges, such as the 3M 80923 or 3M 60926 (as pictured in the frivolous image which first prompted some "mansplaining") are actually described by the manufacturer as being equally suitable for "Organic vapour/Acid gas"

So, whether we think we are dealing with a dangerous gas or dangerous vapour, 3M (at least) have us covered.

As a non-chemist, non-vapist and nonetity, I think everyone must check these sorts of matters for themselves; I found this page very useful.

Agree. I bought the 3M set up last year when I bought my Sublimox & posted a eBay link at the time. It came from USA, home of the frivolous but excellent series!
 

Do224 

Field Bee
Joined
May 27, 2020
Messages
508
Reaction score
229
Location
Cumbria
Hive Type
national
I did say in an earlier post that I didn’t think it was a varroa issue, more like several issues all colliding at the same time.

As for treating prophylactically it is about the only thing you can do in winter and that is better than looking at dead bees in spring, or how good a wax moth breeder you are 😊
Given that 6 out of 8 colonies have failed, is it not likely that the same thing did for all of them i.e. varroa?

As mentioned, some of the colonies were small swarms from the summer but others were full size colonies that originated as nucs from a reputable supplier.
 

Patrick1 

Field Bee
***
Joined
Nov 12, 2011
Messages
643
Reaction score
545
Location
Canterbury CT4 5HW
Hive Type
national
Number of Hives
300
It’s a missed opportunity to not have had a more experienced beekeeper or SBI to look at the comb and bees more thoroughly. I am not sure what the status is for sending off bees for inspection by the DEFRA lab something to consider when the deaths are fresh.

Start to rule things out to end up with some idea of what happened, it’s all verry sad but just to say “Oh well” seems to undervalue the importance of a conclusion …..maybe you have already done everything possible to unravel this sorry position.

How are you going to restart?

This may have all been covered in previous posts, if it has my apologies.
 

Sanntos 

House Bee
Joined
Aug 9, 2011
Messages
187
Reaction score
173
Location
Sweden
Hive Type
langstroth
Number of Hives
20
.... is it not likely that the same thing did for all of them i.e. varroa?
Absolutely, but it is strange that the surviving colony had no treatment then, while the three dead colonies each got three OA strips .


From the beginning of the (very good) thread
... These three colonies started as small cast swarms...I think I caught them in about mid/late June. Soon after I caught them I placed three abelo OA strips on each colony (although perhaps not soon enough...there was already brood present).

The surviving colony was also a swarm but it was a larger prime swarm and caught early June. Ironically this colony has had no treatment, not even strips as I had a super on by the time I was putting the strips on the other colonies. ...
 

Beebe 

Survivor bee
***
Joined
Jan 18, 2021
Messages
1,430
Reaction score
1,346
Location
Scotland
Hive Type
national
Number of Hives
Owned by six
Absolutely, but it is strange that the surviving colony had no treatment then, while the three dead colonies each got three OA strips .


From the beginning of the (very good) thread
I agree about the thread; in fact all of @Do224 's threads are interesting and to the point (note to self about that),
It seems to be assumed that all colonies of bees have terminal numbers of bees varroa unless they get regular treatment. Our own @pargyle proves that not always to be true.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 13, 2020
Messages
2,328
Reaction score
2,474
Location
West Yorkshire
Absolutely, but it is strange that the surviving colony had no treatment then, while the three dead colonies each got three OA strips .
Given that OA strips aren't really treatment, what has happened here is that something in the region of 8 colonies (in the apiary) weren't treated, and 6 (ish) have so far died. I suspect that the fact that the surviving colony didn't get the OA strips is just a coincidence (or perhaps the strips are even harmful - who knows!).
 

pargyle 

Super Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
***
Joined
Oct 16, 2012
Messages
14,940
Reaction score
5,667
Location
Fareham, Hampshire UK
Hive Type
14x12
Number of Hives
6
I agree about the thread; in fact all of @Do224 's threads are interesting and to the point (note to self about that),
It seems to be assumed that all colonies of bees have terminal numbers of bees unless they get regular treatment. Our own @pargyle proves that not always to be true.
Yes ... that's true ... but it comes with a caveat or six ...

a) I'm not a proper beekeeper
b) I'm lucky,
c) It's more work not treating than treating
d) It's success is highly dependent upon so many factors that you really need to be on top of testing for varroa and recogniise if there are any changes in your colonies.
e) It's not for the faint hearted and you have to be prepared to lose colonies that cannot manage the varroa load.
f) It's not a path I recommend - particularly for new beekeepers.
 
Joined
Oct 13, 2020
Messages
2,328
Reaction score
2,474
Location
West Yorkshire
I agree about the thread; in fact all of @Do224 's threads are interesting and to the point (note to self about that),
It seems to be assumed that all colonies of bees have terminal numbers of bees varroa unless they get regular treatment. Our own @pargyle proves that not always to be true.
You should definitely give non-treatment a try for 2022 and 2023. At least half your hives, maybe even all. Seriously.
 

pargyle 

Super Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
***
Joined
Oct 16, 2012
Messages
14,940
Reaction score
5,667
Location
Fareham, Hampshire UK
Hive Type
14x12
Number of Hives
6
You should definitely give non-treatment a try for 2022 and 2023. At least half your hives, maybe even all. Seriously.
I'd say start with one colony and get used to testing with sugar rolls at every inspection and see how that colony performs in the location in terms of varroa load. Get that colony into a poly hive with additional insulation above the crown board and say your prayers ....
 

Latest posts

Top