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Virgin Queen Bee?

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Forester Doug 

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This bee was found with it's abdomen in the cell. Although not as obvious as other queens I have found, but could this be a virgin emergency queen cell queen? I am trying to unite two colonies so knowing I've got her will be a weight off my mind. The abodnen is not as elongated or tapered as I'm used to, but this could be due to her being a virgin?
 

Swarm 

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Looking at the thorax, I'd say no but her abdomen looks a tad long for a worker.
 

Forester Doug 

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I know what you mean, the larva had probably partially developed, as I said this is potentially a emergency virgin queen, so may have been fed royal jelly later in it's development
 

Swarm 

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And looking at those, I think you've got her.
 

Antipodes 

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Sometimes a worker gets sealed inside a queen cell. It doesn't look like a queen bee to me. The legs don't look right, nor the thorax, wings or abdomen.
 

Forester Doug 

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I'm so confused, I've found a second and way more convincing queen 20201030_140218.jpg20201030_140541.jpg20201030_140546.jpg
Side by side there isn't much in it, but the darker one certainly looks more queen like to me, she also was found with workers clustering around her. Both have exhibited queen like behaviour.
 

Swarm 

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Looking at the thorax on the dark one, you can see the definite cleft, that one is a queen . If that ginger one is a worker she seems to have a very strange abdomen.
 

Forester Doug 

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Looking at the thorax on the dark one, you can see the definite cleft, that one is a queen . If that ginger one is a worker she seems to have a very strange abdomen.
Yeah the dark one is a cert, but the other one I am unsure of, it may be possible there were two virgin queens in the hive? Although unlikely?
 

Swarm 

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Everything said no with the ginger one but her abdomen just seemed long. When viewed from the side, she appears swollen.
The shiny, clefted thorax and light legs of the dark one make her a cert though.
 

Forester Doug 

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The ginger one appeared to have bits of white on the side either from stretching. Wonder if it has a parasite or something. A very odd worker, and it had its abdomen poking into a cell. Very strange.
 

WildPrGardens 

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A very odd worker, and it had its abdomen poking into a cell. Very strange.
[/QUOYE]

Sometimes when a hive has been queenless for awhile one or more workers who had received a little more royal jelly during their larval stage will start to lay eggs. Those that do will have slightly longer abdomens, but still only lay drones.
You could put her in a mini-mating nuc with some house bees and see what she does.

Good luck
 

Forester Doug 

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That sounds plausible, this hive did have an emergency queen, but she was not laying.
 

jenkinsbrynmair 

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Sometimes when a hive has been queenless for awhile one or more workers who had received a little more royal jelly during their larval stage will start to lay eggs. Those that do will have slightly longer abdomens,
Can you point us to any studies on that?
any worker is capable of laying eggs, many do, queeenless or not. They don't change in any way to do so. It's just in a queenright hive the other workers 'police' it and clear out any worker laid eggs. in a Q- hive they leave them out of desparation
 

Erichalfbee 

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My money would be on nosema
Any other bees with fat abdomens?
 

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