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Vegan Society's view on beekeepers

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porterswoods 

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HI

I was googling to see if it would be possible to harvest royal jelly, i have decided that it looks too complex for me, and i came across this on the vegan society's website.

http://www.vegansociety.com/animals/exploitation/bees.php

I had to have a laugh because it seems so ridiculous. It is also worth looking around the website as it is not just beekeeping they condemn as the devils work.

Have a read and you will find yourself sitting there with a smile, as i did!

Cheers
James
 

Brosville 

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Veganism? - anorexia with attitude!:svengo:
 

porterswoods 

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Brosville you are quite right!

Whatever is eaten, meat or veg, it sill needs bees to be kept to help with polination. Cows are fed grass and grains that need pollination. Hens need polinated wheat for their feed so they can produce eggs. Potato plants need pollination to produce spuds as fruit trees need pollination to bear fruit.

So this leaves me to the conclusion that they don't know what they are on about! If they want to be vegan thats up to them, but they will still need people to keep bees to aid the pollination of the food that they deem is ok to eat.
 

taff.. 

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I was reading that article last week and couldn't believe the crap thats in it
 

Brosville 

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I get really cross about it! - if people want to starve themselves, that's fine by me, but in their lunatic zeal, they tend to harm others, often in dreadful ways....
A vegan woman of my acquaintance kept cats, and kept them locked in to deny them their innate nature to hunt, and fed them on "vegan cat food" - and wondered why they became ill and died..........
Even worse are the cases where silly little girls get "hooked", and over a period of years deplete all their reserves of certain essential nutrients, have a child, and breast-feed the hapless infant - there are many cases on record of children being permanently brain-damaged through lack of essential nutrition
("in need of care and protection" job).
What is so dreadfully sad is that a vegetarian diet can be perfectly healthy, all that's needed is something as simple as the addition of a few eggs or similar into the diet to render it healthy and complete..... (eggs being probably one of man's most "natural" foods).....
 

marcros 

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I was googling to see if it would be possible to harvest royal jelly, i have decided that it looks too complex for me
I dont think that it is actually that complex. Surely it is just queen rearing through whatever method, removing the larva at the optimum time and using a little pump (available from thornes I think, and no doubt elsewhere) to suck out the royal jelly. I have never done it- I wouldnt know what to do with royal jelly if I harvested it.
 

merylvingien 

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LOL those vegans are crazy people and i bet they have big ears too.

Just scouted quickly through the page as it is not in my nature to read crap, but some of the stuff they are spouting is beyond ridiculous.
My word, how the human population has evolved :confused:

Live long and prosper!
 

oliver90owner 

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The rubbish I read on this thread concerns the basic facts of insect pollination and food production.

Cows are fed grass and grains that need pollination. Hens need polinated wheat for their feed so they can produce eggs. Potato plants need pollination to produce spuds as fruit trees need pollination to bear fruit.

When did you last see bees pollinating grass or wheat?

Vegans can eat whatever they want to, and not eat some things, as they please. Just don't try to change history. Homo sapiens was a hunter/gatherer. Omnivorous. Full stop.

Don't make it easier for them to promulgate there (sometimes fanatical) ideas on the back of ignorance of real life facts. Sorry, but one out of four does not get a 'pass' mark from me!

RAB
 
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JCBrum 

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Having read the linked page and some others on that site, ... and to employ the vernacular, ... I think it's a load of bollox, and that's what probably keeps their ears apart.
 

porterswoods 

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Having 100 acres of grass to mow for hay to feed our cows over winter. The neigbouring farm has 150 acres of wheat.

My neighboring farm has 10 hives just to pollinate his crops, which in turn increases yeilds. The bees were working the grass pollen and working the wheat, rape, beans and his millet when I visited his apairy this year on various occasions.

My bees seem to like grass as it has an abuncance of pollen and holds a lot of water in the seed/flower heads. (i don't know what to call them as they are not flowers as such). Wheat does have flowers but it depends on the variety of wheat and they are not showy like rape.

Wheat is then used mostly for animal feed in this country, which then ends up in a lorry to bring it to my 12000 free range hens, and some times in the feed for my cows, to produce eggs and beef.

The little bee may seem insignificant by itself but when you add it to the bigger picture it plays a vital role in any food chain wether it be to produce eggs, dairy, meat or fruit and veg.

Don't think i'm a vegan, i'm not, am personally i think vegans look i'll for being so. I like shooting, eating rabbit and phesant plus the nice juicy steaks, and anything else for that matter. There is not many foods i would not eat.

I also think the vegan society needs to do a lot more reasearch before it starts pointing fingers, it makes the society look as if it is full of no brainers not knowing the true facts of agriculture. Wait maybe i've hit on something there.

Cheers
James
 
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oliver90owner 

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porterswoods,

it makes the society look as if it is full of no brainers not knowing the true facts of agriculture. Wait maybe i've hit on something there.

Sure does.

Grass and wheat (a grass) are wind poillinated. That is why the pollen is so very much smaller than most normal flower pollen. That is why you suffer from hay fever - the pollen is being blown up your nose.

OSR, (Rape or Canola) is, likewise, mainly wind pollinated or self pollinated - estimates are about 90%.

The bees were working the grass pollen and working the wheat when i visited his apairy this year.

If you say so.

Wheat has to be pollinated by insects, just like rape,

Are you implying a close connection between wheat and rape? They belong to two entirely different families.

I really think you should go to google and search for bee pollination or wind pollination. Or try Wiki. There are many good articles on the net, I am sure.

But please don't continue to assert that bees are a necessity for pollination of grasses, wheat and potatoes (the latter a vegetative organ of perennation which is actually a stem tuber).

RAB
 

porterswoods 

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Potatoes do have flowers, which would suggest they have a need for pollination and have been known to grow seed pods. and bees arn't a nessity for any pollination of grass or wheat, or any other plant for that matter, but they the can aid the process though.

Rape must benefit from having nectar as otherwise it wouldn't bother. A fiends of the earth study says "Honeybees are the primary pollinators of oilseed rape, although the pollen also spreads on the wind." But then they also come out with a lot of tripe at times.

Perhaps they were collecting pollen or water off the wheat, i don't really know, but there were hives in a wheat field. erhaps he hadn't got round to moving them?

Hope we can just agree to differ? after all bees are funny creatures and will do what you least expect.
 

Finman 

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I like most 'cow's animal rights society'.
Its idea is suport cow's natural life style.
One goal is that a cow may genuine bull at least once in her life and not only rubber glove.
 

victor meldrew 

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Rape must benefit from having nectar as otherwise it wouldn't bother.
Hope we can just agree to differ? after all bees are funny creatures and will do what you least expect.
:), Plants dont think? ,the exuding of nectar is a process evolved to reduce the excess sugars the a plants phloame/sap. Taken further, it's attraction to insects and birds improved it's chances of successful pollination and thus ensured it's long term survival.

John Wilkinson
 

oliver90owner 

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porterswoods,

Hope we can just agree to differ?

Have to. I'm not changing. Spuds will be produced by a 'tat' whether the flowers are pollinated or not. I wonder why we don't grow spuds from seeds? (Well, actually, I don't really) . Still only 1/4.

RAB
 

victor meldrew 

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porterswoods,

Hope we can just agree to differ?

Have to. I'm not changing. Spuds will be produced by a 'tat' whether the flowers are pollinated or not. I wonder why we don't grow spuds from seeds? (Well, actually, I don't really) . Still only 1/4.

RAB
Can't argue with that :). spuds that are vegetively progagated are clones. Any advancement / evolution etc. must occur via cross pollination, usually bumble bees. spuds are the same family as tomato , I've never seen honeybees working tomatos .

John Wilkinson.
 

Geoff 

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I think bees will collect maize pollen, but I doubt that they do any benefit to the plants which are wind pollinated, probably the same applies to wheat and other cereal crops. You only need bees to pollinate potatoes if you are rearing new varieties and then they might have to be hand pollinated and bees excluded.
That page from the Vegan society is quite moderate. I have seen one that described the queen bee being raped and violated by artificial insemination and then being disfigured by having her wings cut off. Well they cannot criticise me in that way. I had a colony that turned up in my garden with a virgin queen. I bet she had a whale of a time, like a little s.....t cause she is laying like a good un. They started with just a few bees in mid June and I have just taken them out of a nuke box and given them a commercial brood box.
I would disagree with the comments that vegans should neccesarily not be as healthy. You can get all your nutrition without using animal products and it can be a lot healthier - it cuts out most of the saturated fats for a start. People seem to forget that the modern Western diet is quite unhealthy - far too much fat and salt and too many calories. I know cause I suddenly found out I had clogged arteries at 52 and I was not overweight, was reasonably fit, non smoker and ate a healthy diet. My fat intake is now very low compared to most people.
I can sympathise with people who make a personal choice not to eat animal products and respect their point of view. However if the whole world went like that then everything would be arable and we would lose our livestock animals because they exist so they can be eaten.
The same applies to bees really. I aim to give my bees a good home and protection which enables them to multiply. Hopefully I can take surplus honey and wax. Rather than exploitation I see it as co -operation. Though sometimes I feel I am being exploited - you can imagine how much sugar those little darlings can consume without giving a lot back.
 

Geoff 

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Can't argue with that :). spuds that are vegetively progagated are clones. Any advancement / evolution etc. must occur via cross pollination, usually bumble bees. spuds are the same family as tomato , I've never seen honeybees working tomatos .

John Wilkinson.
I dont think honeybees can pollinate tomatoes. They use bumblebees instead cause their buzzing shakes the pollen off.
 

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