Varrox vaporization

[Hivemaker.]

Is a chocolate bar, yes ?

Yes......

 

[mazzamazda]

@Plenty of honey

I have an answer by the Varrox producer! (Andermatt-BIO AG).
It says that keep the varrox in the hive for 2 min over the connection, is necessary to complete the sublimation of the last little quantitative of oxalic and as we said, for avoid the fog leak.

Thanks for answers guys.
But, I'm curious and I'll try with thermoregulations, in order to don't refresh the dish and save battery and a lot of time. I'll inform you about!

Thanks again.

I dont disconnect the battery for up to 60 treatments, I just treat one, pan still hot, next, and so on. I do leave the hive closed for at least the time it takes to treat another 5 hives though.

My advice though is if you have lots of hives, pick another treatment, it is 2 weeks of my life I'll never get back and some hives still required a different treatment to get mite numbers down.

 

[Beefriendly]

My advice though is if you have lots of hives, pick another treatment, it is 2 weeks of my life I'll never get back

Have you though of investing in a sublimox? It brings the time required right down and once bought running costs are negligible. I never used the pan type as I realised it was far too slow once you get over a threshold of around 10/12 hives.
The "rare" problem hives may require some more thought, but going back to expensive mite strips in every hive is not really economical and as I don't bring most of mine back from the heather until late Sept its too late and cold for all these thymol vapour things.

 

[mazzamazda]

Have you though of investing in a sublimox? It brings the time required right down and once bought running costs are negligible. I never used the pan type as I realised it was far too slow once you get over a threshold of around 10/12 hives.
The "rare" problem hives may require some more thought, but going back to expensive mite strips in every hive is not really economical and as I don't bring most of mine back from the heather until late Sept its too late and cold for all these thymol vapour things.

Thanks for the suggestion, if it worked faultlessly I still couldnt consider oav with brood. By the time you close off all the hives I would have my cheap as chips strips in and good for 45 days, no further treatments required, treat and forget. It would take over 6 years of amitraz treatments to just cover the cost of a sublimox, thats the new inflated 4x price of the product, not including the hours and hours required to treat with oav. In reality I would spend 1 month every year treating for varroa, complete madness.

 

[Hivemaker.]

In reality I would spend 1 month every year treating for varroa, complete madness.

Takes a days work here to treat around 200 hives with a Sublimox, that includes travel between apiaries, non are very far away, actual time treating is around four hours.

There is a more expensive vaporizer that will treat up to 2,000 a day.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Have a look at Richards video here.
What a beast of a machine
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zNVbLYYXP9I

 

[mazzamazda]

Takes a days work here to treat around 200 hives with a Sublimox, that includes travel between apiaries, non are very far away, actual time treating is around four hours.

There is a more expensive vaporizer that will treat up to 2,000 a day.

For one person including closing off bottoms? Problem is you have to go back 3 times, or four or 10!

 

[Beefriendly]

There is a more expensive vaporizer that will treat up to 2,000 a day.

Yes the "Big Mother effer" from Treat Varroa.com

 

[Hivemaker.]

Yes the "Big Mother effer" from

Much the same but was thinking of the Vm.....http://www.vmvaporizer.com/

I know the, Mark, UK who has one.

 

[Beefriendly]

I would have my cheap as chips strips in and good for 45 days, no further treatments required, treat and forget. It would take over 6 years of amitraz treatments to just cover the cost of a sublimox, thats the new inflated 4x price of the product, not including the hours and hours required to treat with oav. In reality I would spend 1 month every year treating for varroa, complete madness.

Not sure what price you get your strips for?
In the UK Amitraz costs about £30 for 10 strips = 5 brood boxes (2.5 hives on double brood). Not a cheap treatment. Your 200 hives would cost £1200 per year over here
Sublimox price, when I bought mine a few years back was about £250, now shot up in price, best I can find is from Abelo for £365. Mine paid for itself in the second year and now I'm quids in. Yes it is more time consuming than sticking strips in... But yearly costs are down to around £12. plus a bit of petrol for the generator.
Perhaps you should set up an Amitraz strip export business if they are cheap as chips in Portugal.

 

[Beefriendly]

I know the, Mark, UK who has one.

Surprised you haven't got one or two yourself by now
Bet the apibioxal running costs are astronomical....

 

[Hivemaker.]

Surprised you haven't got one or two yourself by now
Bet the apibioxal running costs are astronomical....

Have two Sublimox units, that is enough... don't know how they manage to sell that apibioxal, so cheap.

 

[mazzamazda]

Not sure what price you get your strips for?
In the UK Amitraz costs about £30 for 10 strips = 5 brood boxes (2.5 hives on double brood). Not a cheap treatment. Your 200 hives would cost £1200 per year over here
Sublimox price, when I bought mine a few years back was about £250, now shot up in price, best I can find is from Abelo for £365. Mine paid for itself in the second year and now I'm quids in. Yes it is more time consuming than sticking strips in... But yearly costs are down to around £12. plus a bit of petrol for the generator.
Perhaps you should set up an Amitraz strip export business if they are cheap as chips in Portugal.

I used to get sytraz (amitraz) for €26 per litre, I treated 360 colonies in the spring with 1.5 litres. It now costs €8 for 100ml, 1l bottles unavailable. Varroa are having a field day.

 

[Plenty of honey]

Not sure what price you get your strips for?
In the UK Amitraz costs about £30 for 10 strips = 5 brood boxes (2.5 hives on double brood). Not a cheap treatment. Your 200 hives would cost £1200 per year over here
Sublimox price, when I bought mine a few years back was about £250, now shot up in price, best I can find is from Abelo for £365. Mine paid for itself in the second year and now I'm quids in. Yes it is more time consuming than sticking strips in... But yearly costs are down to around £12. plus a bit of petrol for the generator.
Perhaps you should set up an Amitraz strip export business if they are cheap as chips in Portugal.

Most professionals here buy " by the "Tactic" by the litre. Marc is struggling to get it in the 1litre volume in Portugal (Mazzamazda) at the moment . (they have banned it there i believe) but i can still buy it for about 85 euros a litre.
All you do is cut up your own strips and dilute the "Tactic" down with Parafin oil, using and calculating the correct doses, not rocket science. You can make well over 1,000 treatments, a huge amount of strips, for more than half the price. Ive never actually done this buy my colleague does. i watch and help him mix it , next year i may do this as i really am struggling to get all my colonies treated post harvest. i would desperately like to not use Amitraze, but knocking it down quickly and efficiently at the correct time is a really attractive idea. i still would vape but would use that as an additional mopping up in the autumn or / and in broodless colonies over the winter.
No matter what anybody says to me about Amitraze, it does work well, and has the shortest life in the colonies. Being a professional now, or at least trying to be, I've learned that you have to save time and be as efficient as possible.
No other profesional beekeepers in France buy the pre made strips. its just not viable.

How they get around the legality of the application i really dont know. i think more of a bling eye is turned here.

 

[mazzamazda]

Most professionals here buy " by the "Tactic" by the litre. Marc is struggling to get it in the 1litre volume in Portugal (Mazzamazda) at the moment . (they have banned it there i believe) but i can still buy it for about 85 euros a litre.
All you do is cut up your own strips and dilute the "Tactic" down with Parafin oil, using and calculating the correct doses, not rocket science. You can make well over 1,000 treatments, a huge amount of strips, for more than half the price. Ive never actually done this buy my colleague does. i watch and help him mix it , next year i may do this as i really am struggling to get all my colonies treated post harvest. i would desperately like to not use Amitraze, but knocking it down quickly and efficiently at the correct time is a really attractive idea. i still would vape but would use that as an additional mopping up in the autumn or / and in broodless colonies over the winter.
No matter what anybody says to me about Amitraze, it does work well, and has the shortest life in the colonies. Being a professional now, or at least trying to be, I've learned that you have to save time and be as efficient as possible.
No other profesional beekeepers in France buy the pre made strips. its just not viable.

How they get around the legality of the application i really dont know. i think more of a bling eye is turned here.

The recipe I use is less efficient but follows almost exactly the amount of amitraz per strip (500mg) that apitraz uses, cut cardboard strips 20cm by 4cm, I dilute 1-1 amitraz 125mg per 1ml with sunflower oil. Leave the strips in the hive for 45 days. 1l treats approx 125 hives.

The legality is no different from using oxalic acid for £2 per kg or apibioxal, official line is you cant use it in the EU, who can afford to treat or not treat as is the case here where amitraz is impossible to get.

 

[Hivemaker.]

No other profesional beekeepers in France buy the pre made strips. its just not viable.

Why is it not viable, Richard... is it that there is simply not enough money to be made from commercial beekeeping in France?

 

[Plenty of honey]

Why is it not viable, Richard... is it that there is simply not enough money to be made from commercial beekeeping in France?

Perhaps I should rephrase that from non viable!. When a cheaper alternative is available that is exactly the same, it’s gets used Instead. I’ve never bought any Amitraze treatments up until now, only relied on VOA which has worked up to now, but logistically I will consider an Amitraze one off post harvest next summer. Getting my Varroa numbers down early, which in my mind is key!

I think if anyone can save a considerable amount in treatments then their going to do it.
In France honey wise was generally a bad year and any sizeable operation that can half their treatment costs and get away with it would do so.

Would you know of anyone mixing their own for U.K. treatment? I cant imagine its legal???






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[Beefriendly]

I'm not aware of anyone "rolling their own" in the UK.
But Thanks Mazza and PofH for an interesting insight into cheap amitraz strips.
Still think you should market them in the UK

 

[Hivemaker.]

Would you know of anyone mixing their own for U.K. treatment? I cant imagine its legal???

No idea, would not be legal that's for sure, almost everything here is illegal.

The pesticide companies would most likely love to hear that French beekeepers were pouring Amitraz into their hives, maybe they do know.

https://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=41088

 

[slaykristian]

I don't know how is in your country, but here in Italy beekeepers are afraid to use oxalic acid instead apibioxal... this because a lot of beekeeping associations/organisations did them some "terroristic" informations...
Even if pure oxalic acid use is illegal (but I feed some personal doubts about), if you use an organic molecola, I think is impossible to find it... Otherwise it cannot be used also in organic beekeeping. Ok?
This is the important difference between amitraz or others chemicals and organic acids... they are not deteactably by an analisys...
Amitraz used over the authorized ways is illegal,but oxalic not apibioxal could be illegal just only if authority watch you during the precise moment of use... Otherwhise, no one can found oxalic tracks.