Varroa

[Neil]

Interesting article:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gCY6EZkgxE"]Varroa - David Heaf on Treatment-Free Beekeeping - rucher école Villa le Bosquet - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Norfolk]

Yes, very good.

I'm wondering what part swarming plays in the bees defence against Varroa.

 

[REDWOOD]

Probably he shakes bees onto new foundation, I can't believe he does nothing,

 

[TOBY-3652]

I know someone that has 40 or so hives and has never treated for varoa in 10 years SO CAN BE DONE

 

[sunhivebee]

Yes, very good.

I'm wondering what part swarming plays in the bees defence against Varroa.

Swarming results in brood-free periods in the hive, and is probably very helpful, from that point of view.
At the last NBU inspection of one of my apiaries the colonies were found virtually varroa free. This was attributed to a number of different factors, one of which was the fact that all these colonies had issued swarms.
I posted that same youtube clip to which you refer above on another varroa related thread a little while ago.

 

[The Drone Ranger]

I know someone that has 40 or so hives and has never treated for varoa in 10 years SO CAN BE DONE

Treating is simple and inexpensive so why ?

 

[Tom Bick]

Probably he shakes bees onto new foundation, I can't believe he does nothing,

Although he never mentions it but I would place a good bet that foundation will be one of the last things he would put in the hives.

 

[Bee Bumble]

Although he never mentions it but I would place a good bet that foundation will be one of the last things he would put in the hives.

My view too.

 

[sunhivebee]

Although he never mentions it but I would place a good bet that foundation will be one of the last things he would put in the hives.

You're betting right, Tom. David Heaf has a selection of scientific papers examining the residue in foundation, which he kindly sent me once. He can be relied upon not to induce his bees to raise their young on contaminated substrate.
I have not got them to hand, but they are sure to be found on his forum.

 

[Tom Bick]

Treating is simple and inexpensive so why ?

Its about letting nature evolve to create a balance that the bees and varroa can coexist. How long this will take is unknown also its unknown if it will happen but its probably more likely than not.

 

[REDWOOD]

Hope he succeeds in his quest, but I remain a sceptic and will continue to treat until such days,

 

[The Drone Ranger]

perhaps a bit anti social not treating
Unless of course you have no close neighbours

 

[Chris B]

Its about letting nature evolve to create a balance that the bees and varroa can coexist. How long this will take is unknown also its unknown if it will happen but its probably more likely than not.

But letting nature take sole charge of your breeding programme (i.e. survival of the fittest) may create problems as well as solve them. I would bet the bees you end up with would never produce you a single pound of surplus honey. Who would bother to keep bees like that?

 

[REDWOOD]

perhaps a bit anti social not treating
Unless of course you have no close neighbours

Because most beekeepers treat for varroa the mite count is very low this year.

 

[Tom Bick]

But letting nature take sole charge of your breeding programme (i.e. survival of the fittest) may create problems as well as solve them. I would bet the bees you end up with would never produce you a single pound of surplus honey. Who would bother to keep bees like that?

Yes possible Chris but hard to imagine the bees evolving to produce less honey as one thing they have mastered and part to play in their success and to our advantage is to gather a surplus at times of plenty.

Swarming and cast swarms will impact on honey production if that is the sole intention of his beekeeping and I don’t think it is somehow. It’s about non chemical treatment for varroa and other beekeeping practises may be adopted and perhaps he has a sort of selective breeding thing on the go but perhaps more low key than intensive.

He talks of high loss rates and far higher than what I would accept but then his hive numbers fluctuate greatly throughout a year.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Treating is simple and inexpensive so why ?

As a newbee like yourself, Droneranger, I have been wrestling with the idea of undertaking various treatments for my one colony when there was not a lot of evidence that treatment was needed. This year's generally low Varroa counts may have been caused by meteorological, climatic or environmental factors but it is possible that some bees are learning some mechanism to defend themselves against the mite.
This could be a Darwinian "survival of the fittest" scenario. The bees that don't eventually learn the defend themselves or don't have a friendly beek to feed them chemicals for their mites will not survive.
So why treat? For bees to learn hygienic grooming behaviour, they'd have to have mites to learn on. If beekeepers kill all the mites with chemicals, the bees have no opportunity to become hygienic.
There are people on this forum who already appear to have hygienic bees but are reluctant to shout it from the rooftops for fear of being ridiculed so I'm not surprised when David Heaf says in the video that he has bees that exhibit that behaviour.
This is a theoretical point of view - if you've only got one colony, like me, you're a bit reluctant to risk 100% of your bees on the hope they'd learn self-grooming. The furthest I'd go is to buy a queen from somebody who has been breeding hygienic bees for some years down here in sunny Cornwall and give them a chance to show their stuff.

CVB

 

[Tom Bick]

This hygienic trait in the bees that people are looking for is only one thinking and something that amuses me is the responsibility is always placed on the bees to deal with the problem. If we are talking about time evolving a solution then it is in the varroa’s interest to move towards the bees as it is not in the interest of the parasite to kill its host!!

 

[Aggravated]

I wonder if all of the work that has been carried out to help reduce the Varroa will help the bees get the upper hand, so speeding up the "evolution" process, the OMF must have made the biggest impact. I take the point that treating without the need is pointless and counter productive

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

This hygienic trait in the bees that people are looking for is only one thinking and something that amuses me is the responsibility is always placed on the bees to deal with the problem. If we are talking about time evolving a solution then it is in the varroa’s interest to move towards the bees as it is not in the interest of the parasite to kill its host!!

I agree - much shorter breeding cycle. Any pathogen that is virulent and easily transmitted has to drop one aspect. H1N1 flu is a recent example.

Unfortunately, colony deaths are the only way to "enforce" that.

So I do not see non-treaters (or feral colonies) as "anti-social", although I see why people do. Rather, I see them as the opposite; the volunteers of the campaign. What I do not know (not an epidemiologist) is how many untreated colonies are needed to keep up that (desired) evolutionary pressure on the mite, which is clearly able to respond rapidly to evolutionary pressure. Volunteering for colony losses might be a waste of time, although I suspect not.

 

[mbc]

At the last NBU inspection of one of my apiaries the colonies were found virtually varroa free. This was attributed to a number of different factors,

??!
Was one of the factors the inspector couldnt even get into the daft hives to even scan his/her eyes over the less than 20% of the varroa which may have been visible on some of the workers ?
I cannot believe you would let an inspector fork out 200 odd drones to give a reasonable fair assessment, or did he/she do an ether roll with ~300 adult bees ?
Or did the inspector cull the hives to make an accurate assessment ?

I'm sure lots of people have inspections where virtually no varroa are found, means diddly squat.