Varroa Vapouriser

[Finman]

He also says, quote: 'It's effect on the bees may be additive so the rule to be observed is that no bee should be exposed more than once in it's lifetime' unquote

That statement is false.

Our varroa researcher Seppo Korpela use to do twice trickling in winter.

When I asked, does the queen react on several trickling, he laughed: missunderstanding. No problem with queens.

 

[Finman]

,
Who is Wally Shaw? Some researcher?

This document, written by Wally Shaw, deals with the trickle or dribble method of oxalic acid treatment for varroa infestation of honey bees.

Walter is a beekeeper that belongs to the Anglesey Beekeepers' Association in North Wales. He has prepared this document that I re-coded with new layout for use on the web.

 

[Finman]

.
If you put into google "nanetti trickling varroa" you get real research information.

 

[Arfermo]

In the video, the guy went to a lot of trouble to block off the entrance around the pipe and said to close off any top ventilation. So, would you need to close off your OMF of this method work properly?

Yes, yes,yes.

 

[Arfermo]

Stiffy,

Need extra safety kit, it is slower and 12V accumulators are needed (heavy and could be an extra HSE issue as well as an extra cost) where no mains or vehicular access is possible at that time of year.
Regards, RAB

A 12 motorcycle battery is not heavy and if fully charged does its job to my satisfaction.

 

[Crg]

.OA gasifying is an old method.

As I said "old" is not really something that I would factor into deciding one way or another. It's a surprisingly silly comment for you.

Movable frames in a square box is quite an old method too, but they still meet my needs more than anything I've seen around so far.

 

[Crg]

My question was are there any studies to show how bees react to vapour being wafted in???

Just to let you know, I did a Google search before asking the question....

...and you couldn't find anything?

but love the attitude, what you cant see doesnt hurt them, I am sure they relax and stretch out when ever a cloud of oxalic comes wafting passed!

Apart from you, I've never seen anyone state anything like "what you can't see doesn't hurt".

Even without seeing any studies you could guess that feeding a sugar syrup to bees so they ingest some of it, is going to harm them more than giving them a light coating of the stuff.

Maybe that's why this study found OA in sucrose solution was more toxic to bees than OA in the aqueous solution.?

Out of interest I treated 3 of mine today, all done in ten minutes, no pushing pipes into the hive, sealing off or burning chemicals in a hubble bubble pipe.
CheersS

So about the same time as it would've taken to vaporise - also I don't use a hubble bubble pipe

 

[Finman]

It's a surprisingly silly comment for you.

.

You just do it as you like.

 

[Crg]

In UK winter dead rate of hives is something 20-30% and you cry for some dead bees: " 5 dead bees on my roof".

My winter rate for the last couple of winters has been 0%. All going well it'll be about that this winter too.

 

[Finman]

.
Even without seeing any studies you could guess that feeding a sugar syrup to bees so they ingest some of it, is going to harm them more than giving them a light coating of the stuff.

Yes, I have read them. It does not harm bees. Researches has been well documented and veryfied.

I have collected onto in our forums best material

All links do not work any more, probably


European varroa group. You may seach reports by their name.
Coordination in Europe of research on integrated control of varroa mites in honey bee colonies
http://ec.europa.eu/research/agro/fair/en/se3686.html


Clear advices from Canada http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/apiculture/factsheets/221_varroa.pdf


Oxalic acid vapour treatment
http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/oxalicthorne.html
http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/articles/cor.htm



Harms to brood area if you trickle during summer. Results are worse than what mite can do

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=17485001



How soon mites die when you give oxalic cure - After two week you see the result

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/oxalic.html


Oxalic acid levels in human body
http://www.emea.europa.eu/pdfs/vet/mrls/089103en.pdf


Oxalic cure and human health - oxalic acid residuals classification means that the substance is evaluated as not dangerous, and no residue limit is needed to protect the consumer.

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=16374464

http://www.neurobiologie.fu-berlin.de/menzel/Rademacher.html


OA in human food stuffs
http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcom...er/oxalic.html
http://growingtaste.com/oxalicacid.shtml
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=14942975

 

[Stiffy]

...and you couldn't find anything?



Apart from you, I've never seen anyone state anything like "what you can't see doesn't hurt".

Even without seeing any studies you could guess that feeding a sugar syrup to bees so they ingest some of it, is going to harm them more than giving them a light coating of the stuff.

Maybe that's why this study found OA in sucrose solution was more toxic to bees than OA in the aqueous solution.?



So about the same time as it would've taken to vaporise - also I don't use a hubble bubble pipe

Sorry my humour was lost on you regarding 'hubble bubble' pipe, and nice link, shame it doesnt work and why I didnt include it!

Glad to hear you have had zero losses but as you choose not to list the number of hives you keep, we cannot see if you 1 or 1001 hives but hey what a clever boy?

Have fun

 

[oliver90owner]

The context of the Wally Shaw needs to be taken for what it is worth. Mostly an opinion and directed at newbees.

The back end of the piece at leasts supports my approach of only doing it if/when required. He says something like 70% of colonies don't need the treatment and only 10% are really in need of intervention. That 10% have already been missed at some other point in the season or have picked up large numbers from robbing or a local colony collapse.

As to the method, who really cares as long as everyone is safe, the bees are treated and the varroa are dead.

There are usually other reasons for a dead hive over winter, not just varroa. If varroa were annihilated, there would still be winter losses, just no varroa to blame!

Regards, RAB

 

[Dishmop]

There are usually other reasons for a dead hive over winter, not just varroa. If varroa were annihilated, there would still be winter losses, just no varroa to blame!

but who will hold their hands up and say that it might be something to do with opening hives up and poking around to see how many bees pop up from downstairs and say hello thank you for the fresh air....

 

[johna]

QUESTION
Does sublimation do damage to plastic (expanded polystyrene) hives ?.I would have thought the heat to sublimate OA was quite high.Poking heated pipes/metal blocks into plastic hive entrances seems like a no/no ?.

 

[oliver90owner]

Does sublimation do damage to plastic (expanded polystyrene) hives ?.I would have thought the heat to sublimate OA was quite high.Poking heated pipes/metal blocks into plastic hive entrances seems like a no/no ?.

150W for about 2-3 mins, so that is, say 2.7kJ of heat, so nothing really. The temperature of in excess of 162 degrees Celsius would cause localised damage if simple precautions were not taken - a simple heat shield under the hot bit is all that is needed for the 'in-hive' evaporator, and just around rhe delivery pipe for the external ones. Once the oxalic is sublimed it immediately solidifies when mixing with cold air as fog particles and 1 or 2 grams of product is neither here nor there. Most of the heat will be required to evaporate the water of crystallisation in the dihydrate.

So the simple answer to a simple question is no, if simple precautions are taken.

If done through the OMF, with an evaporator beneath the hive, no problem at all.

RAB

 

[Dishmop]

Any reason why this couldnt be done with a smoker with an extension on the spout? Or something like a smoker...

Mix OA in it, heat it and puff it into hive. Too much aggro for a couple of hives I suppose tho.

 

[Arfermo]

Any reason why this couldnt be done with a smoker with an extension on the spout? Or something like a smoker...

Mix OA in it, heat it and puff it into hive. Too much aggro for a couple of hives I suppose tho.

Couldn't be more hit or miss imo. Evaporation/sublimation requires sealing of the hive. Try it with a smoker and let us know if you managed to avoid gassing yourself too!!! Or have you got a space suit handy?

 

[oliver90owner]

Afermo,



Control of heat and dose, heating as smoker instead of a small metal cup, safety. Crackpot ideas, not thought through, does nothing to help explain the operation to new-bees.

In fact, some ideas make me think some may not be trusted with a syringe and trickling, without trying to improve the method, simple as it is.

Regards, RAB

 

[Dishmop]

Afermo,



Control of heat and dose, heating as smoker instead of a small metal cup, safety. Crackpot ideas, not thought through, does nothing to help explain the operation to new-bees.

In fact, some ideas make me think some may not be trusted with a syringe and trickling, without trying to improve the method, simple as it is.

Regards, RAB

I did say "could it?" but sorry I spoke.

 

[oliver90owner]

You have 838 posts as I write this. Very sorry, but 'learning rate' comes to mind.

RAB