Varroa Vapouriser

[jimbeekeeper]

Postage is not bad!





Off out to the garage now, to know out a few of them at £35 each + £2.99 P&P

 

[blackbrood]

Postage is not bad!

Off out to the garage now, to know out a few of them at £35 each + £2.99 P&P

lmao.

 

[Stiffy]

The plainest fact is that evaporation is significantly less invasive than trickling ever can be at a time of year when opening up the hive is not welcomed by the bees. OK?

Happy Xmas to one and all.

TTFN

HGA

I dont use an evaporator and never will as I still believe it too risky , my choice. Trickling when needed also allows you to check on stores and any 'other' problems at a time when there may still be time to sort out before spring.
Has there been any studies to show how the bees react at having the fumes 'pumped' into the hive during the winter? I think the statement that this treatment is 'significantly less invasive' is probably based on not being able to see what is going on in the hive rather facts......unless you know better?

Cheers
S

BTW Well done on your honey crop.

 

[oliver90owner]

Stiffy,

Have you ever used one?

I have used all three oxalic acid delivery methods and, to be quite honest, the evaporator was the easiest. It had no safety worries for me - either stand severely up-wind or wear the appropriate safety gear. You may appear to look stupid, standing in your allotment/field/garden in the middle of winter with a respirator on, but who really cares; you just take the necessary simple safety precautions.

Three downsides to the method. Need extra safety kit, it is slower and 12V accumulators are needed (heavy and could be an extra HSE issue as well as an extra cost) where no mains or vehicular access is possible at that time of year. Apart from that there appears to be no particular benefit with doing it however you wish.

That is why the guy on epay has several for sale. Time required for doing multiple hives. Bee farmers changed to trickling for that basic reason. If the alternative had not been available, they would still be evaporating (subliming actually) now.

The kit needs to cool between hives as well as taking a couple minutes or so to heat up and sublime the oxalic acid. A bottle and syringe is much faster. Speed was why the bee farmers changed method, not necessarily anything else, unless they were really stupid, and breathed in the fumes! With the trickle method their operators (as in employees) do not need so much training, which might be difficult with some.

As you said, simply your choice. I would leave the choice for all individuals to make up their own mind on how they wish to proceed.

Regards, RAB

 

[Dishmop]

Not that I have used either method but I would have thought that the vapour method would allow the fumes to permeate the hive better than a trickle that might run anywhere, or not at all if it comes to an obstruction.

The one on ebay looks much the same as the one in the previous link I put on.

I cant see how either would create any danger,,,, you insert it into or under the hive if you have OMF stand back and apply the power.


unless you want to lean over the fumes to check that the heater is working...

Think along the lines of OMF, metal dish, heat under metal dish, tea light candle, meths burner..... light the fuse and stand back.....

Something else that comes to mind is those small 12v elements that you plug into cigarette socket for heating up a cup of tea in the car.

 

[Poly Hive]

Evaporation is no more dangerous than trickling oxalic

That is certainly not how I read his article.

He wrote: " Although OA may have a comparatively low toxicity when taken by mouth, direct injection into the bloodstream is very dangerous but not a realistic risk (I hope). Inhalation is also potentially dangerous OA is an extreme irritant to the airways and adsorption by the lung tissues provides a direct route to the bloodstream.

For this reason the trickle method of application is the only one to be recommended. "

As a COSHH assessor of some years experience the preferred method is always the one of the least risk. I have never even entertained the thought of using the evaporation method for that very reason.

PH

 

[oliver90owner]

P H,

Let's keep it in context here. You are quoting from an article written for green beeks, as in inexperienced, new starters and all that. The majority of whom have never heard of COSHH, let alone been on a forum, such as this, where the pros and cons of the method have been bounced around umpteen times.

As someone who has handled open radio-active sources, used oxidising concentated acids and alkalis (by the 50 litre drum at a time), processed molten metal ( some in excess of 2200 degrees Celsius) and actually understand the simple/direct warnings on a COSHH safety data sheet, etc, etc., the choice is there.

As I said earlier, if the method had not been mainly superceded by a much quicker and techically easier method, we would all be using the sublimation route now.

There are doubtless others suitably qualified to use the sublimation method, or others who would be perfectly able to use it safely. On the other thand there may/will be some who cannot even handle a 50ml syringe correctly.

Regards, RAB

 

[Poly Hive]

Indeed Rab.

I am merely pointing out what the article said, and my own thoughts on using a potentially dangerous method.

For anyone who is competent then of course the choice is there. As it is for the incompetent too. However it is only right to point out the issue.

PH

 

[Dishmop]

I cant see why anybody using the vapour method would be inhaling the stuff anyway......


unless you've got your head in the hive...

 

[Bee-Key-Pur]

In the video, the guy went to a lot of trouble to block off the entrance around the pipe and said to close off any top ventilation. So, would you need to close off your OMF of this method work properly?

 

[Crg]

Trickling when needed also allows you to check on stores and any 'other' problems at a time when there may still be time to sort out before spring.

You can heft a hive to check on stores without opening. You can do this as often as you like over the winter period.

Has there been any studies to show how the bees react at having the fumes 'pumped' into the hive during the winter?

Plenty of studies showing that trickling oxalic acid in a sugar solution does cause some harm to bees. Search engines are your friend.

 

[Crg]

In the video, the guy went to a lot of trouble to block off the entrance around the pipe and said to close off any top ventilation. So, would you need to close off your OMF of this method work properly?

You'd have your tray in anyway as you'd want to see the mite drop.

 

[Bee-Key-Pur]

That's what I thought, but just wanted to check, thanks...

 

[Stiffy]

.

"You can heft a hive to check on stores without opening. You can do this as often as you like over the winter period"

Not really what I was implying but yes you can heft a hive, and I do on occasions, certainly not on a regular basis as I am sure this disturbs the colony as well!

Plenty of studies showing that trickling oxalic acid in a sugar solution does cause some harm to bees. Search engines are your friend.

Of course they dont appreciate having oxalic trickled over them and yes I know there are plenty of studies top show this .

My question was are there any studies to show how bees react to vapour being wafted in???

Just to let you know, I did a Google search before asking the question....
but love the attitude, what you cant see doesnt hurt them, I am sure they relax and stretch out when ever a cloud of oxalic comes wafting passed!

Out of interest I treated 3 of mine today, all done in ten minutes, no pushing pipes into the hive, sealing off or burning chemicals in a hubble bubble pipe.
Cheers
S

 

[Finman]

Plenty of studies showing that trickling oxalic acid in a sugar solution does cause some harm to bees. Search engines are your friend.

Show me some where trickling has been done correctly.
As far as I know it is the most friendly varroa killer what I have met.

On Finnish foorum there are a poll, how many use this winter trickling. It is 90% out of 42 answers.

In every research it has been mentioned that trickling does not violate queen and it does not affect on spring build up.

Trickling kills larvae but to brood hive it is needless because most of mites are in safe under cappings.

 

[Dishmop]

I am sure they relax and stretch out when ever a cloud of oxalic comes wafting passed!

probably none too pleased about having acid dribbling down from the roof all over them and their food either...

 

[Finman]

.
OA gasifying is an old method. About 10 years ago trickling method was reseached so well that it was recommneded as official controll method.

In UK winter dead rate of hives is something 20-30% and you cry for some dead bees: " 5 dead bees on my roof".

"The government's National Bee Unit has always denied the existence of CCD in Britain, despite honeybee losses of 20% during the winter of 2008-09 and close to a third the previous year. It attributes the demise to the varroa mite – which is found in almost every UK hive – and rainy summers that stop bees foraging for food.
"

 

[Ruary]

Absolutely and emphatically wrong. Evaporation is no more dangerous than trickling oxalic. Just read Wally Shaw (Bsc) in Beecraft Dec. 2010 Issue, Page 11 for a truly authoritative riposte to the stupid opinions that are regularly espoused by those who have no experience whatsoever of all of the various application methods. .

Oh!
Not quite accurate to quote the article

"OA is an extreme irritant to the airways and adsorption by the lung tissues provides a shortcut to the bloodstream"

" For this reason the trickle method of application is the only one to be recommended. Vapourisation and spraying of OA both involve a risk of inhalation and should not be used without wearing full chemical protection mask and goggles. All three methods of applying OA have a similar efficiency of 90-95% but the trickle method is both the safest and quickest"

I do wish people would not mis cite articles.

Ruary

 

[Poly Hive]

I cant see why anybody using the vapour method would be inhaling the stuff anyway......


unless you've got your head in the hive...

Nobody sets out to have an accident. Yet they do. Every day.

Common sense is as rare as... insert your own phrase.

Every day people who set out for work whistling and happy.. (ish) do not return home. They die, they have accidents which take them to hospital.

Never ever assume that the other person is as safety concious or as clever as you are. Probably they are not.

Safety is a mind set.

I worked in an industry which was as safety concious as the Nuclear industry, and just as accident prone.

So in my view if you have the opportunity to do as good a job with a lower risk method you use the lower risk system.

KISS

PH

 

[oliver90owner]

He also says, quote: 'It's effect on the bees may be additive so the rule to be observed is that no bee should be exposed more than once in it's lifetime' unquote

After using the phrase 'may be' in that one he then goes on to say there is no evidence that the queen is affected. I would only accept that when proven.

What he is saying there is really pure supposition, with no data as proof. Until that proof is available (and who will accept it if it goes 'against the wishes' of most beekeepers?), I, for one, shall avoid oxalic acid treatment as much as possible.

That whole series of articles was aimed at the beginner. Interesting in parts but not exactly earth shattering - well not for those who have kept bees for some time - just simple basic beekeeping for the beginner. A good series for that cohort.

Regards, RAB