Varroa treatment when and best product

[Erichalfbee]

...but @RichardK is asking an intelligent question which is giving us something to think about and I'm sure someone can answer it. My recent question regarding the cleaning of bee-wear has morphed into a discussion on the genealogy of later-model Land-Rovers; so I think we can be flexible on this too. Generally, there's a lot of definitive answers here when it comes to varroa treatment. But I'm now seeing that we don't necessarily know everything about how these things are actively doing the job they are intended to do; an earlier question on how oxalic acid kills mites also came to a dead end.
I would like to understand these chemicals better before I put my bees, and possibly my honey, through the experience.

Note...I am not commited to non-treatment; I do have my sachets of Apivar at the ready, but I would prefer not to treat if it's possible.

Have a look at these videos
Well worth some time
https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/aficionados-of-oxalic-sublimation.51127/#post-781618

 

[Moobee]

Fine, but this thread was started by someone based in the UK, so we are answering his question. Perhaps a good question to ask on a French beekeeping forum?

It’s a valid point. The manuals give you which month to do your treatments in but don’t allow for massive regional weather variations. Last year the local BKA were advocating the start of varroa treatment in September, but my bees were still foraging furiously. Flow had stopped in the more northern part of our area but down by the coast it was still balmy and mild.

 

[user 20297]

It’s a valid point. The manuals give you which month to do your treatments in but don’t allow for massive regional weather variations. Last year the local BKA were advocating the start of varroa treatment in September, but my bees were still foraging furiously. Flow had stopped in the more northern part of our area but down by the coast it was still balmy and mild.

Early in the Bob Binnie video about oxalic acid research, the scientist, Lewis Bartlett, talking about their trials with an innovative method of applying the chemical (effectively by glycerine-type strips, I think) stated that these had disappointing results when compared with the claims made for them and that some of this related to the wildly differing climate zones in the US. It's very pertinent to consider your location, but there are so many things to consider when you examine this in the scientific way that these people are equipped to do, that I'm not surprised that there is a general attitude of "just zap them all and do it as soon as you can. " (although I don't necessarily agree with that approach).

 

[Curly green finger's]

I don't see much talk on this thread to do with the slowing down of queens laying after the summer solstice.
My point we get into August /September time and since the summer solstice we are loosing daylight the days are getting shorter and nights longer our bees will reflect this whatever the weather does hence winter bees being reared and nests contracting thus this is the time we need to treat to make sure our winter bees are healthy and strong to survive there long life they will now lead untill spring.
Even in France which isn't that far away it makes no difference if you have better temps later on your bees are following what they have done for mullenia.
We as beekeepers probably don't notice this suttle change untill we get to the autumn equinox but it is happening.
I am hoping for me and some of my bees that I have started treatments before the equinox comes and be at least if not halfway through my treatments.
So to me I'm following the seasons of the bee's... If I'm barking up the wrong dog! then Im no beekeeper.

 

[Boston Bees]

Last year the local BKA were advocating the start of varroa treatment in September, but my bees were still foraging furiously

Delaying treatment because you want a bigger honey crop isn't a good idea. It's the ultimate false economy as you might get a bigger crop this year, but you increase the chances of getting zero crop next year as your bees will die over winter (or just come out of winter weak)

The fact that your bees were still foraging is irrelevant to when you need to treat.

 

[user 20297]

My point we get into August /September time and since the summer solstice we are loosing daylight the days are getting shorter and nights longer our bees will reflect this whatever the weather does hence winter bees being reared and nests contracting thus this is the time we need to treat to make sure our winter bees are healthy and strong to survive there long life they will now lead untill spring.

That's a very good point.

 

[DaveG23]

Any thoughts or experience on the best treatment to use on hives with either a virgin or newly mated queen, also same question for hives with queen cells.

I have a hive with a new queen just emerged, not laying at last inspection.

Also have a hive that was given a test frame as it's been over 4 weeks since a virgin emerged and no eggs yet.

I normally use apiguard at this time of year, but wondered if the smell might be an issue for young queen's, e.g. if they have less pheromone, or if it stops them laying will the bees supercede her.

Would apivar strips or oxalic vape be a better bet for these hives?

 

[drex]

When a hive has minimal or no brood as in the situation you describe, I take the opportunity to do a single OA vape.
If at this time of year, when the crop comes off, they would all get Apiguard, even if they had the vape a few weeks earlier

 

[john1]

Hi,
Thanks so much for the replies.

So, I believe I should use Apivar around the mid of August and remove it after 6 - 8 weeks.

Then end of November, I should do Oxalic Acid Vaporizer (please correct me if I am wrong).

Do I need to use Apivar this year again?

I will not be in the country in December.
Many thanks

 

[Moobee]

Delaying treatment because you want a bigger honey crop isn't a good idea. It's the ultimate false economy as you might get a bigger crop this year, but you increase the chances of getting zero crop next year as your bees will die over winter (or just come out of winter weak)

The fact that your bees were still foraging is irrelevant to when you need to treat.

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Delaying treatment because you want a bigger honey crop isn't a good idea. It's the ultimate false economy as you might get a bigger crop this year, but you increase the chances of getting zero crop next year as your bees will die over winter (or just come out of winter weak)

The fact that your bees were still foraging is irrelevant to when you need to treat.

My bees health is my main concern but it's just getting the timing right as i'm waiting for one super to finish being capped. They've got plenty of stores for winter already but would be great to get this as had such a poor crop this year so far. However, could still remove, vape and return I guess.

 

[Moobee]

That's a very good point.

Doesn't the queen continue egg laying though if weather is warm and forage is good? Just something I read on the Apiarist blog. We don't actually know when she starts producing eggs for the winter bees.

 

[North End Bees]

But I'm now seeing that we don't necessarily know everything about how these things are actively doing the job they are intended to do; an earlier question on how oxalic acid kills mites also came to a dead end.

Well it will come to a dead-end until research finally establishes the exact mechanism. At the moment it's all speculation.

But we know mite treatments work so will have to accept that until proof of the 'how' is discovered.

 

[Darryl]

I'm preparing for my first autumn/winter varroa treatment. Mite count is low at present but the more I read about timing and types of treatment the more confused I get. I am planning to use Api Bioxal by vaping in August/September and a repeat around November/December. Many advise three treatments in Aug/Sep, 6 days apart. The Api Bioxal packet says only one treatment is advisable - thus my confusion. Is it one treatment per year, one in Aug and another in Nov or three treatments on both occations? I am located in NW UK and would appreciate any tips for clarification.

 

[Erichalfbee]

If you are vaping you need three or four treatments five days apart. Apibioxal is indeed licensed for use once a year.
I shall be doing my colonies in a couple of weeks as above

 

[Darryl]

If you are vaping you need three or four treatments five days apart. Apibioxal is indeed licensed for use once a year.
I shall be doing my colonies in a couple of weeks as above

Thanks. So is it quite safe to use Apibioxal 3-4-times for both the autumn treatment and the same for the midwinter one? I assume that it's licensed for one treatment p.a. but safe to use more frequently.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Thanks. So is it quite safe to use Apibioxal 3-4-times for both the autumn treatment and the same for the midwinter one? I assume that it's licensed for one treatment p.a. but safe to use more frequently.

Yes it’s perfectly safe but it will glue up your vaporiser. Do you have a varrox? If you do line it with silver foil.

 

[Darryl]

Yes it’s perfectly safe but it will glue up your vaporiser. Do you have a varrox? If you do line it with silver foil.

Thanks. Feel more confident with the treatment now. I'll use the foil as you suggest.