Varroa aggregate on young drones, IN PREFERENCE to nurse bees

[Erichalfbee]

Host and parasite being used by a virus.

And isn’t there something ( not in this presentation, but elsewhere) about bees living with a multitude of varroa variants which are attenuated to just one variant in the varroa, making it pathogenic?
Bees not ever exposed to varroa still have DWV

 

[BaconWizard]

Just been watching an interview with Dr. Lamas, covers some of the stuff discussed here including the idea of drone trapping to treat for mites.

Not finshed yet, but this is great stuff! And now I am lusting after one of those queen-cages

 

[Erichalfbee]

I am lusting after one of those queen-cages

Like this?
https://www.abelo.co.uk/shop/national-hive/poly-hives-national/national-queen-trap/

 

[BaconWizard]

And isn’t there something ( not in this presentation, but elsewhere) about bees living with a multitude of varroa variants which are attenuated to just one variant in the varroa, making it pathogenic?
Bees not ever exposed to varroa still have DWV

That would fit with what happened with Ron Hoskins down in Swindon and his "varroa resistant" bees. I believe there was some specific grooming behaviour, but tests later found that his bees were living perfectly happily with high levels of Type A DWV (my nomenclature) which didn't have any serious symptoms, such that deliberate infection with Type B DWV (Again, my nomenclature) through varroa-mites had little effect upon them.
A bit like how in humans, people who had cowpox suffered much less or were immune to the much more serious smallpox, observation of which led to the invention of vaccines.

 

[BaconWizard]

Like this?
https://www.abelo.co.uk/shop/national-hive/poly-hives-national/national-queen-trap/

Yeah, like that!

 

[rolande]

Not finshed yet, but this is great stuff! And now I am lusting after one of those queen-cages

The last 20 minutes or so was a rather unexpected but very welcome look at the man himself.

 

[MillMeadow]

Yeah, like that!

https://bee-equipment.co.uk/collections/queen-rearing/products/national-queen-trap
A little cheaper in the current sale but I don't know how the quality compares.

 

[drex]

Made my own. Two rectangular frames joined on bottom edge by two hinges. The top of each frame is made thin enough just to grip the sides of the top bar of the brood frame. Frames made deep enough to accommodate a brood frame, when closed. I cut holes at top of frames for the long lugs of my Nationals to go through. The frames were then covered by cut offs from an old plastic QX. Easy to do and cost me the price of 2 hinges. Held closed by a ? Mark shaped latch. Has been used for last 5 years

 

[JamezF]

a ? Mark shaped latch

Called a cabin latch or cabin hook, I believe. Took me ages to find the right name when I wanted some.

James

 

[Murox]

Yes I did wonder if his findings may give pointers to more "targeted" vaping.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes I did wonder if his findings may give pointers to more "targeted" vaping.

Ideal time to vape is when you nuc the queen and are waiting for the parent hive to re queen itself

 

[mdotb]

What would be the benefit in catching young adult drones, separating them from the rest of the hive, and sublimating oxalic acid on them? If you simply sublimate oxalic acid into the whole hive* at that time you would kill all of those parasitic mites**, plus those on female bees and any others caught out of capped cells, so at least as effective, probably more so. Much easier, less disruptive, and more effective.

At that time in the season it is the inability to affect mites within capped cells that is the main limiting factor on treatment with oxalic acid, which such an approach would not help with.

If the findings prove to be accurate, I can see the impact on measures such as sampling for sugar roll/alcohol wash testing; however treatment of parasitic mites is not particularly the challenging part of varroa management and would not be improved by treating only those feeding on young adult drones.

* Strictly speaking, hive without honey supers, though with 0 day withdrawal period you can put supers back on the hive after treatment, and oxalic acid sublimation is not a prolonged release treatment. Queen excluders, where used, would already prevent drones being in the removed supers in this case.
** They have been shown not to be in any way phoretic, so I avoid using the term, but I mean parasitizing adult bees in this sense i.e. those not breeding in cells with pupae.

 

[BaconWizard]

What would be the benefit in catching young adult drones, separating them from the rest of the hive, and sublimating oxalic acid on them? If you simply sublimate oxalic acid into the whole hive* at that time you would kill all of those parasitic mites**, plus those on female bees and any others caught out of capped cells, so at least as effective, probably more so. Much easier, less disruptive, and more effective.

At that time in the season it is the inability to affect mites within capped cells that is the main limiting factor on treatment with oxalic acid, which such an approach would not help with.

If the findings prove to be accurate, I can see the impact on measures such as sampling for sugar roll/alcohol wash testing; however treatment of parasitic mites is not particularly the challenging part of varroa management and would not be improved by treating only those feeding on young adult drones.

* Strictly speaking, hive without honey supers, though with 0 day withdrawal period you can put supers back on the hive after treatment, and oxalic acid sublimation is not a prolonged release treatment. Queen excluders, where used, would already prevent drones being in the removed supers in this case.
** They have been shown not to be in any way phoretic, so I avoid using the term, but I mean parasitizing adult bees in this sense i.e. those not breeding in cells with pupae.

Whatever the specific treatment used, the advantage would be in treating only the drones and not the entire colony, at least on that occasion.
I am not treatment-free nor advocate it for most people. But I am always going to hate that we have to do it, and anything that reduces the need, if effective, is a priority.

 

[Dodge]

Seems to me that we want to encourage lots of new drones to be reared, preferably in a single, predictable location, and then to target them for treatment while 3-4 days old, and while there is a nectar-flow. How that could be done without killing them or buggering-up something else is problematic, I think.

I am crossing my fingers for a future drone-pheromone that can attract mites to a sticky pad. But that's just my fantasy.

I immagine drone pheromone sticky pad may well soon become someone's research project whether PHD or, because their boss told them too fairly soon I suspect.

 

[BaconWizard]

I immagine drone pheromone sticky pad may well soon become someone's research project whether PHD or, because their boss told them too fairly soon I suspect.

The same guy who is now a post-doctoral researcher is attempting to develop one with a team, I now realise from other interviews I’ve since seen.

Probably shouldn’t hold our breaths though.

 

[rolande]

I think the important take away from this video is that, possibly, a lot of testing isnt actually giving true readings because it seems that the wrong bees are being tested. Whether attempts are made to try and kill mites on drones or not is to me irrelevant - as I've intimated previously I actually think it may have detrimental affects on the drones future value but even if that's not the case the effort and work involved would discount many methods on a reasonable number of colonies.

I don't think anyone has commented on his idea, expounded in the question and answer section at the end of the video, of breaking up those colonies with high spring populations (established by testing drones) into nucs and running with the increase.

Two things here, firstly, all colonies would need testing and secondly, his promotion of this method becomes understandable when we listen to the second interview which I posted where he discusses his previous business of making and selling lots of nucs.