Using Apiguard in very hot weather

[Linda G]

I have put Apiguard on a smallish colony I acquired (6 full frames of brood) because I was told they were a swarm and had not been treated for varroa. Now I am worried it could be dangerous for them because it could reach 40 degrees. Should I remove it? I don't want anything to happen to them as they are lovely tempered bees with a highly visible and relaxed queen!

 

[Wilco]

If it gets 40C inside the hive, Apiguard is the least of your worries. Bees are usually pretty good at regulating internal temperature themselves so I wouldn't panic.

 

[Ian123]

Bees in tight spaces and apiguard can be a poor mix..bees can abscond on to high a dose. Do be a little careful over the next few days. I’d consider a little extra ventilation over the very hot few days at least.

 

[Linda G]

I've just removed the entrance completely and the varroa monitoring board and made a cardboard shade for the front.There is an empty super over the Apiguard instead of an eke. I will keep my eye on them over the next few days.

 

[drex]

With those sensible precautions I would guess it will all be OK Linda

 

[Micklemus81]

I have put Apiguard on a smallish colony I acquired (6 full frames of brood) because I was told they were a swarm and had not been treated for varroa. Now I am worried it could be dangerous for them because it could reach 40 degrees. Should I remove it? I don't want anything to happen to them as they are lovely tempered bees with a highly visible and relaxed queen!

I'm glad the subject of Varroa infestation is being discussed because it can be an insidious problem that hides in a colony.
I found out the hard way & was never informed at all when I bought our first Buckfast colony of incredible bees. They cane with varroa in manageable numbers but the second Nuc I bought 11th June this year were absolutely lathered in the damn things. Because I'd treated the first colony successfully with oxalic acid as per Randy Oliver's experimentations I soon set about this new colony and killed over a thousand mites.
This is surprising to some beekeepers but not surprising to others.
I learned only yesterday that a Dr Berry Georgia said she found the oxalic acid strips as used by Randy Oliver were not effective.
I do not like using chemical acaricides if at all possible. I have experience that they killed everything on a polecat I had because as the vet advised,
it's fur grew back beautifully.
I'd rather use the oxalic acid but found the fumigation is not very killing.
What is Apiguard I wonder?
We've always bought excellent honey from a beekeeper of big experience and he uses Thymol in the late summer and swears by that.
I feel it's a great shame that beekeepers in the States who are desperate to kill varroa and some have hundreds of hives resort to experimentation with the strips Randy Oliver is so familiar with but are breaking the law by doing what they do.....
It seems strange that oxalic acid can be sprayed directly onto bees but not administered on absorbent 'strips' that many and in particular in the USA say they have had great results in killing plenty of varroa mites.
A bonus for me is this extremely hot weather because varraoa's must be finding their existence horrible. I hear they hate the heat!

 

[Ian123]

A bonus for me is this extremely hot weather because varraoa's must be finding their existence horrible. I hear they hate the heat!

Hearing they hate the heat and the truth/reality are often different. Are you aware what part of the world varroa originated or perhaps areas it’s spread. Our little heat wave pales into insignificance

 

[Erichalfbee]

I'd rather use the oxalic acid but found the fumigation is not very killing.

Why is that? How did you use it?
It’s the only treatment I have used for ten years.
BTW Randy’s shop towels are well known not to work in some states. Something to do with the weather/humidity I seem to recall? How that works I don’t t really understand.

 

[Micklemus81]

Why is that? How did you use it?
It’s the only treatment I have used for ten years.
BTW Randy’s shop towels are well known not to work in some states. Something to do with the weather/humidity I seem to recall? How that works I don’t t really understand.

Thanks for the reply.... Frederick Dunn said Dr Jennifer Berry disproved Randy Oliver's good results. That may have been incorrect engineering in the early trials.
How is it that a research doctor in Argentina has had excellent results with 1 to 1 strips. Something does not seem right in Dr Berry's findings.
I would love to know what the humidity is in Georgia when I have a try at the data.
Quite a number have tried Randy Oliver's way of doing it and they report good results.
As a matter of interest a Doctor called Cameron Jack reports from his survey that it needs 6 at least applications by fumes at 4 gram a time & even then he says it's not all that effective. He added that 2 gram of OA is next to useless.
The bees were not touched for a week to settle. Three days after fumigation 80 mites dropped.
One factor I think is the number of mites on the colony in the beginning
I day after 2 strips were 'installed' 300 mites were exterminated.
I would have thought that the fumes would be more searching and therefore more efficient but that method of application seems not to be the findings. Why that is I do not know but would like to know.
In a month the mite count today is 8 mites, The numbers as per Randy Oliver's meticulous data suggest that is what would be found.
because it's the hottest day ever, here in the UK who could disprove that the mites in their droves did not jump off the foragers 1st thing this morning, because they knew what they were in for ( a roasting) if they all 'stayed put' on the mainly nurses?
I see mites croak it at 42C. Do they abandon ship if it approaches that temp.... It's all very interesting.

 

[Ian123]

I see mites croak it at 42C. Do they abandon ship if it approaches that temp.... It's all very interesting.

Clearly not as they live in many parts of the world that see higher temps, your clasping at straws!

 

[Erichalfbee]

Thanks for the reply.... Frederick Dunn said Dr Jennifer Berry disproved Randy Oliver's good results. That may have been incorrect engineering in the early trials.
How is it that a research doctor in Argentina has had excellent results with 1 to 1 strips. Something does not seem right in Dr Berry's findings.

I think if Randy put his strips between the frames ( like beekeepers do here) rather than on the top he might have more consistent results?

 

[Micklemus81]

Why is that? How did you use it?
It’s the only treatment I have used for ten years.
BTW Randy’s shop towels are well known not to work in some states. Something to do with the weather/humidity I seem to recall? How that works I don’t t really understand.

Thank you for you reply. The vaporisation should as I thought be very searching but it is not as searching and therefor as efficient as it was hoped. Cameron Jack -USA researcher elaborates on the sublimation method. I was surprised and disappointed when he said it was not efficient.

It's well worth following Randy Oliver's research in depth especially the latest July 22 consultation. Dr Jennifer Berry -Georgia university study discards the results that not only Randy Oliver has researched but also the Argentinian researchers data since 2015.
It is always beneficial to keep an open mind on anything.
I would say one thing and it's a very old saying..... seeing is believing. Another good one is never say never.
I mean who would have thought that nothing more than a dish cloth with a bit of stuff on it could wipe out a whole army of parasites?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Thank you for you reply. The vaporisation should as I thought be very searching but it is not as searching and therefor as efficient as it was hoped. Cameron Jack -USA researcher elaborates on the sublimation method. I was surprised and disappointed when he said it was not efficient.

Well perhaps you could tell me how Mr Jack used it to arrive at his conclusion?

 

[Micklemus81]

I think if Randy put his strips between the frames ( like beekeepers do here) rather than on the top he might have more consistent results?

I think you are definitely onto something there. I think actually he did mention that he found that the most efficient in one of his numerous vids.
I have seen on YT that an interesting chap who seems amiable and really hands on that he will be moonlighting and put those strips right inside the entrance so that every bee entering will have to wipe it's feet on the mat! He seems such a helpful bloke. I think he lives in such a remote area I doubt whether the bee police will bother him.... they might break an axle getting to him.
He mentioned he looked after 200 hives!
No one in the world hates parasites more than myself. Bitten by a tick with lyme 2020 and taking three weeks of Doxycycline made me detest them even more....
I just love lining up the mites and seeing quite a few a few days ago that were light in colour. Ah young females In said to myself - straight out of the wax.
A new chap like me counts them each and every day ( what a chore) on the white sheet painted with cooking oil. I think something positive will come about re Randy Oliver's meticulous work.

 

[Erichalfbee]

For heavens sake don’t just quote snippets. Answer my question?

Well perhaps you could tell me how Mr Jack used it to arrive at his conclusion?

 

[Micklemus81]

He used 4 gram of oxalic acid used by the sublimation method and was interviewed by Kaymon Reynolds 1000 + hives (commercial bee keeper USA. I am surprised you have not looked at the You Tube which is the best way to observe and not get the info from some one such as myself. I fully agree with you ( no need to get too excited) that you and any other beekeeper may well have found the sublimation method worked for you and them. As Frederick Dunn says = he does not say do it this way or that way he says that is how he does it and he readily says he expects a certain thing to happen but it surprises him when it does not happen as he expects it but he is the first one to say he has altered his procedure to get it right for the future.

I hope I have explained myself as I am a new beekeeper but there is nothing wrong with stating the truth looking at any problems through the eyes of an engineer.
I noticed Cameron Jack stated that 6 'sublimations' were conducted in regular 3 days ( I believe) successions at 4 gram a time.....
On 5th December 2021 I saw two bees with DWV dead on the floor and although two sugar rolls produced nothing ( an experienced beekeeper advised useless that sugar) not one mite seen on the permanent catch sheet from day 1. Fumigated 05-12-21 - 3 days later counted 60 mites. The bees got through the winter. April 22 - another additional sublimation at 120C /4 gram Ox average daily drop 20 mites..... few days later saw Randy Oliver's methods. 1 week later 120 mite drop and thereafter for 1 month down to zero drop. Three weeks later new colony lathered in mites.
A week later the existing colony showed the odd 2 o3 per day drop.
Did I find a difference between different oxalic acid delivery =yes.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Well OAV at five day intervals x 4 from either top or bottom of the hive works for me. As I said elsewhere I have two colonies which have had Oxalic strips on constantly since March. But I shall be keeping the honey for myself

 

[Micklemus81]

Thank you I am hoping that if anything original comes about in this forum will be of benefit. primarily for the bees sake. I have always been in awe of them.
If Randy Oliver's additional research which was initially satarted by those doctor, researchers at a uni in Argentina (it's a wonder they would do anything if they knew us brits would benefit by 'it')
I am flabbergasted the very heading (about the 'strips) is pronounced as snake oil.
The derogatory heading is not on in my opinion and it was only last week when a post was removed from RO's July 2022 report that stated that he knew more about graphs than beekeeping.
I don't think there is a person alive that would not have found that quote libellous. Anyway it has been removed and rightly so - the ignorant person.
As I understand it some are saying , it is not efficient. I wonder why that is. I am really interested and wonder if their engineering is not as per what the instructions advise?
I don't blame anyone on a publicly seen forum that is doing something that is however sensible and not in anyway detrimental is open to criticism.
It seems ludicrous that anyone can spray oxalic acid directly onto bees but not put it on an absorbent material that drastically alters the efficacy for the better. As per Randy Oliver's and others findings.

To my way of thinking it is similar to an experience last year. I said the antibiotics are doing me a power of good. The doctor said in that case I will not prescribe you any! That to my mind was the height of stupidity. After all I'm not a bee I'm a bloody human. I get ready in any even to not dismiss anything without close evaluation.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I am flabbergasted the very heading (about the 'strips) is pronounced as snake oil.

everyone is entitled to their opinion, however crackpot it may seem - even you

 

[Erichalfbee]

Thank you I am hoping that if anything original comes about in this forum will be of benefit.

Much original thought has come about in these pages.
I look forward to a report on your next season.