Using a frame-building jig

[JamezF]

As I work up to returning my hive numbers to what they were before children started consuming so much time, I'm having to make up a lot more frames and as a result thinking about using a frame-building jig.

In the videos I've looked at on that youtube it looks like the sidebars are nailed in from the top rather than the edges as is my current practice. Is that considered sufficient, or is something else going on that isn't shown on the videos?

James

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

In the videos I've looked at on that youtube it looks like the sidebars are nailed in from the top rather than the edges as is my current practice. Is that considered sufficient,

I would say no - especially if you have to pry any frames out that the bees have propolised, I've had experience of frames nailed from the top with Langstroths - surprising how many times I was left with a top bar in hand and the rest in situ

 

[jeff33]

I will 2nd that, nail from the side. I have been done with top nailing and it was a nightmare to get the frames out.

 

[JamezF]

That was my concern. I guess people are putting the side nails in afterwards and maybe don't show it because it doesn't happen in the jig. Makes me wonder why they bother with the top nail at all. Perhaps not all frames are machined to tolerances that means they stay together.

James

 

[jeff33]

I guess people are putting the side nails in afterwards

Would seem to be a waste of time and dble the work then. I tend to make 10-15 at the time throughout the winter so by the time spring arrives I usually have enough....but most often not

 

[Gilberdyke John]

As I work up to returning my hive numbers to what they were before children started consuming so much time, I'm having to make up a lot more frames and as a result thinking about using a frame-building jig.

In the videos I've looked at on that youtube it looks like the sidebars are nailed in from the top rather than the edges as is my current practice. Is that considered sufficient, or is something else going on that isn't shown on the videos?

James

I've always nailed side bars to top bars with nails through the sides (nails horizontal in use). The fixings are stronger in shear than tension. Usual advice is to nail vertically through the bottom bars into the side rails to permit removal when renewing foundation. However I rarely bother to do this as I have a frame cleaning tool which clears the side grooves and bottom gap to allow threading in of replacement sheets of foundation.
I use an electric nailer and "square" the frames by eye. Works for me.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

here's my jig - apologies for slightly out of focus pictures - no idea what happened there! it may have been before my op.

 

[madasafish]

I used a frame jig for Lang jumbos but anyone nailing vertically through the top bars is going to get an unpleasant but predictable surprise. Nail THROUGH the sides of the side bars.
(In hive repairs of jumbo frames are "interesting")

I have given up using a jig .. a nail gun # makes frame assembly much easier and if you screw one nail up, another one takes 5 seconds.
# I use a Lidl one lasted four years so far.. or is it five?

 

[Blunt Spike]

I know what I'm doing next week lol. Why have I never thought of a jig.

 

[JamezF]

Would seem to be a waste of time and dble the work then.

Well, exactly. In which case, why bother with a jig?

James

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

In which case, why bother with a jig?

the jig I made just holds everything in place while you nail it, you still have to put the frame together but it just keeps everything square and leaves both hands free to nail it - I think it saves a little time as I divide the process up, first removing all the wedges, then pushing all the sidebars in place then nailing the sidebars in before finally putting one bottom bar in place. you get a better rhythm by dividing the tasks into shorter sections and then by constant repetition.

 

[JamezF]

you get a better rhythm by dividing the tasks into shorter sections and then by constant repetition.

Yes, I've found that too. Much quicker to do one job lots of times than to complete each frame one at a time.

James

 

[jeff33]

Well, exactly. In which case, why bother with a jig?

James

I have seen a video with 10 frames jig , all nailed from the top. They probably used it 1 season and it ended up on the fire!!

 

[user 20297]

When I've heard of frame-building jigs before, it's been ones with a cam action to push in the side-bars a little whilst putting in wires; releasing the cam pre-tensions the wires.
Don't you find that the jointing of the pieces means that frames are automatically within manageable tolerance from square, even without using a jig.
If you're using foundation sheets, you soon discover if there are any misaligned ones and it's easy to rectify by simply applying pressure on the appropriate corner.

 

[Hachi]

I have seen a video with 10 frames jig , all nailed from the top. They probably used it 1 season and it ended up on the fire!!

Certainly people like Ian Stepplar glue as well when he makes his frames.

 

[JamezF]

Certainly people like Ian Stepplar glue as well when he makes his frames.

Ah, I guess that could make quite a difference.

James

 

[JamezF]

I've watched a load more videos now and it does indeed appear that everyone uses glue (just water-resistant PVA by the looks of it). Then either one or two nails, or a staple, through the top bar down into each of the side bars. One person also put a staple in sideways directly under each frame lug (parallel to the top bar). All but one used nail/staple guns. A couple of people using staples gave the size of staple they were using: 1¼" long for one and 1½" for the other.

If you can get the joints glued properly then it's entirely possible they are stronger than putting two nails in sideways as per the UK tradition.

I'm tempted to give it a try.

James

 

[JamezF]

Well, I've made a jig...

I'll make up some frames the way everyone seems to do it on youtube, gluing the top bars in and nailing/stapling from the top. Then I might try an experiment by clamping the sides of a frame made this way and one made the "traditional" way to a ceiling joist in the workshop and hanging some weight off the top bar at the join to see what breaks first.

If it all seems to work well then I'll make up another for super frames.

(I just had another idea to make a jig so I can feed Manley sidebars through the bandsaw or table saw, or even the router table, to cut a chamfer on one edge and see if that means they aren't propolised up so badly. I may need a lie down.)

James

 

[Hachi]

looking good

 

[pargyle]

Well, I've made a jig...

I'll make up some frames the way everyone seems to do it on youtube, gluing the top bars in and nailing/stapling from the top. Then I might try an experiment by clamping the sides of a frame made this way and one made the "traditional" way to a ceiling joist in the workshop and hanging some weight off the top bar at the join to see what breaks first.

If it all seems to work well then I'll make up another for super frames.

(I just had another idea to make a jig so I can feed Manley sidebars through the bandsaw or table saw, or even the router table, to cut a chamfer on one edge and see if that means they aren't propolised up so badly. I may need a lie down.)

James

You have too much time on your hands .... like the creativity though !

I don't bother with a jig, I fit the top bars in place, I glue and nail through the sides as I'm foundationless and I want the frames to last ... turn them upside down, glue and nail the bottom bars (again from the side as they never need to come out). Square them up by eye - good enough for me.

I've never had a frame lose the top bar, I boil them in washing soda when the comb needs replacement and they stay together - I just rewire them with new wires.