Uniting safely

[elainemary]

Having had a couple of unsuccessful newspaper unites (Nucs with mature mated queens) last year, even when the queen was under a push in cage, she was killed later. I’m now very cautious about the length of time a colony is queenless for it to be ‘safe’ to unite to a well established Nuc. Know there is the option of adding a protected queen cell instead but uniting is so much quicker for the colony to be up and running.

In your experience, how long is too long for a colony to be queenless, before it becomes a risk?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

quarter of an hour. Otherwise wait until it is hopelessly queenless.
I honestly think that faffing around caging the queen during an unite (by whatever method) raises the risk not lowers it.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I kill one queen and unite that evening. Doing one today.
As for a failed split they have had a test frame to raise queen cells and are much happier bees. QCs removed in the afternoon. United that evening. Doing one of those too today

 

[elainemary]

quarter of an hour. Otherwise wait until it is hopelessly queenless.
I honestly think that faffing around caging the queen during an unite (by whatever method) raises the risk not lowers it.

Yes I can see your point. They can make emergency cells if they have the means and once they get that idea it seems to increase the risk.
I’ve had a queen killed once accepted, when they are hopelessly queenless - they just waited for her to start laying. Then killed her.
Some colonies seem to only want to make their own.

 

[elainemary]

I kill one queen and unite that evening. Doing one today.
As for a failed split they have had a test frame to raise queen cells and are much happier bees. QCs removed in the afternoon. United that evening. Doing one of those too today

Mine has a test frame in now. I have a spare queen in a Nuc (white) that I’d prefer to unite rather than selecting a good one from the test frame (from good stock). Is it best to cage the queen on her own so they have no option or unite with her Nuc would you say?

 

[Erichalfbee]

I like uniting frames so it would be a nuc unite. It’s just personal preference.

 

[elainemary]

I like uniting frames so it would be a nuc unite. It’s just personal preference.

Thanks

 

[Phill16359]

I have just united a queenless colony to my stronger colony from a nuc using the newspaper method I have looked today and to my horror loads of dead bees outside of the hive and on the landing board. I have done a quick inspection and now can't find my Queen although they have chewed through the paper, I do have eggs so I know she has been there at some point today but a lot of dead bees in the bottom of the hive obviously the uniting hasn't worked any comments

 

[Erichalfbee]

Do you KNOW the smaller colony was queenless?

 

[Phill16359]

Fairly sure thoroughly checked the six frames no eggs or brood it was from a failed split

 

[Erichalfbee]

How long ago was it split and did you try a test frame?

 

[Phill16359]

It was split about with a sealed Queen cell and left for 4 weeks when inspected the Q cell had emerged it was then left for a further 2 weeks to allow for mating flight etc and then inspected again 1 week later no sign of the new Q angry bees etc I dint try a test frame my mistake

 

[Boston Bees]

It was split about with a sealed Queen cell and left for 4 weeks when inspected the Q cell had emerged it was then left for a further 2 weeks to allow for mating flight etc and then inspected again 1 week later no sign of the new Q angry bees etc I dint try a test frame my mistake

To be fair, 7 weeks from a sealed queen cell is long enough to wait.

Some unites of colonies end up in carnage. It's just life.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I suspect you had a queen there. Unfortunately it looks like the wrong one survived.

 

[Erichalfbee]

To be fair, 7 weeks from a sealed queen cell is long enough to wait.

Some unites of colonies end up in carnage. It's just life.

I would still do a test frame now?

 

[Phill16359]

I just hope my Queen right colony is ok will check next Saturday on my weekly inspection thanks to all for your help

 

[Erichalfbee]

Fingers crossed. Hope she’s ok. Do let us know how it goes.

 

[Phill16359]

Will do thank you

 

[Antipodes]

I have just united a queenless colony to my stronger colony from a nuc using the newspaper method I have looked today and to my horror loads of dead bees outside of the hive and on the landing board. I have done a quick inspection and now can't find my Queen although they have chewed through the paper, I do have eggs so I know she has been there at some point today but a lot of dead bees in the bottom of the hive obviously the uniting hasn't worked any comments

Do you have a good flow on at the moment?

I had a lot of trouble combining most of last season when there was no flow to speak of (where I did the uniting). I probably did around a dozen. I never combine with two queens. A dearth seemed to me to cause more carnage (fighting and dead bees), although I'm yet to have a queen killed in the process, even with the dearth. Perhaps in your case the lack of brood pheromones in one of the "colonies" (the likely/potentially queenless one) caused those bees to be particularly twitchy?

 

[Phill16359]

Yes plenty of stores etc on a field of field beans brambles just coming into bloom