uniting a nuc with a grumpy colony

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Curley

House Bee
Joined
May 29, 2014
Messages
364
Reaction score
7
Location
Wilts
Hive Type
National
Number of Hives
8
Hi all

I'v got a grumpy colony which needs requeening.
And I've got a nice nuc at a different apiary
And I need to start apiguard treatment.

I think the sequence of events should be:

Move nuc
Put nuc in full size hive
make grumpy colony queenless
unite with nice colony over paper.
Treat with apiguard
feed up for winter

How long should I leave between manipulations and does it matter which colony goes on top ?

Many thanks
 
Queenless always on top.
When expanding Nuc, need to feed unless lots of drawn foundation to use.
I would leave a couple of weeks before uniting to allow the queenright Nuc/BB to settle. Too much at once can cause more aggression/ worry to the nice hive IMO
Going to be v hot next week or so ... Apiguard should be delayed in v hot weather as fumes + heat... all bees will be bearding! Again IMO
 
Why put nuc in full size hive? Easy enough to arrange for the nuc hive to sit above the other colony, shirley?

Unless hopelessly Q-, it may be prudent to check for queen cells after a week. Never been a problem, but could conceivably occur.

Apiguard? Ugh! But your choice, I suppose.....
 
Yep, I didnt need Apiguard last year as I prefer to give queen best chance to produce.. but Oxalic sublimation worked well. Minimal drop this year and when I did a little drone culling from extended super frame I found nil:hurray:
 
Thanks for the quick and helpful replies

Alas, I am not geared up for vaping oxalic yet and the nuc is a maisie's poly so the floor is fixed.

I'll move today and rehive tomorrow. and let them settle for a couple of weeks before uniting. That should safely get us past the hot weather as well.

Supplementary if i may - the apiguard blurb says best applied when temps are between 20 and 25 - which is what the forecast for Wiltshire is. In practise, is this too hot?

Thanks again.
 
Heather: Why queenless always on top? Having united hundreds of colonies over the years I don't think it matters that much. I tend to have the strongest colony on the bottom , dequeen it at least an hour before uniting and unite using paper with queenright colony on the top and do it in the evening when bees more or less finished flying. If uniting to defensive colony I tend to have queen in cage with fondant release as bees take longer to eat through the fondant and release her than they do to chew through paper. Also use excluder to not only hold paper down but it also prevents queen wandering too early into the other lot where she might get balled.
 
I have put the Q+ on the bottom. It's easier when they're united to just take away the top box, rather than disturbing the whole colony. :)
 
I don't think it matters which colony is on top if both are equal size and temperament. If there is quite a discrepancy, as here, I would definitely put the weaker Q+ box on top. Queen is better protected from bees from the other colony rushing through the box to get to the outside. I never wait to take one box away when the brood has emerged. I consolidate the boxes as soon as a decent amount of newspaper is need the floor. If there is too much brood I share it out amongst the other colonies
 
Hi all

I'v got a grumpy colony which needs requeening.
And I've got a nice nuc at a different apiary
And I need to start apiguard treatment.

I think the sequence of events should be:

Move nuc
Put nuc in full size hive
make grumpy colony queenless
unite with nice colony over paper.
Treat with apiguard
feed up for winter

How long should I leave between manipulations and does it matter which colony goes on top ?

Many thanks

It doesn't matter one jot whether the queenless colony goes on top or the bottom.
The usual thing is to put the colony which has to be moved on top.
If the nuc is in the same apiary put it in a full size box at the same location as it is now, at the end of the day when the bees have stopped flying close it up and carefully move it as close as possible to the colony with which you are going to unite (this can be done the same day)
As they're at a different apiary - hive them there, close them up the same evening then move to as near as possible to the recipient colony. Getting them into a full size hive just avoids uneccessary faffing at the other end when you do the unite (I'm sure Shirley would agree)
now I like to do the next bit very early in the day before the bees start flying - but you can do it last thing in the evening, if in the evening you can prepare the receiving colony earlier by putting a couple of sheets of newspaper on top held down by a queen excluder (the excluder is essential in my view to stop the queen wandering into the Q- side to early and being mobbed) and puttin the roof back on until you are ready to do the move, but you run the risk of them (especially if they are a bit bonkers) chewing through the paper before the unite. Then, when the colony destined for the top is well settled, quickly whip them off their floor and put down on top of the newspaper - the action and confusion of the unite should force the moved bees to reorientate so they shouldn't fly back to the original location.
As I said, I prefer to do it at the crack of sparrows so I just get up, whip the crown board off the receiving colony, put down newspaper (two or three sheets of the torygraph is best) then QX then swiftly transfer the donor colony (which I closed off and moved into position the evening before)
Done this a few times and always Q+ on top as they were in the donor nuc needing to move, the last time with a pretty agressive colony and, apart from the queen going off lay for a wee while, all was fine.

It's only August so plenty of time for Apiguard - I would let the unite get well settled first (so best get it done ASAP)then Apiguard in September
 
Funny you should say that about bees chewing brought newspaper before the unite. Happened to me. Took roof off in evening to be met by angry bees! I just slapped some more newspaper on top of them. Not ideal. If you unite in the early morn do you nobble the queen the day before?
 
Funny you should say that about bees chewing brought newspaper before the unite. Happened to me. Took roof off in evening to be met by angry bees! I just slapped some more newspaper on top of them. Not ideal. If you unite in the early morn do you nobble the queen the day before?

the last two were both hopelessly queenless colonies, otherwise you'd be better finding her then uniting in the evening
 

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