Unite, requeen or steal 😁

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milkermel

Field Bee
Joined
Oct 29, 2009
Messages
768
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20
Location
left of launceston right of bude!
Hive Type
National
Number of Hives
6
Ok so I had mouse attack this year I only have two colonies both of which are only on about 4 frames due to mouse mischief. One has gone Q- since mouse other still has queen. I just don't know what's best to do. Unite the two, but then if something goes wrong I've no back up, but a Queen if there's any around yet? But is postage going to take too long? Or steal a frame from other colony and hope for the best?? Would appreciate bpeoples feedback.
 
I would stick a frame of eggs/larvae in from the Q+ hive and see what happens. If they are Q- they will raise a queen, and if you've just missed her on inspection then you'll also know.

I wouldn't be worrying too much about them being on four frames. It's only mid-April - in many years you wouldn't have opened them until May. Lots of those hives might have been on four frames and you would never have known.
 
Def Q- as no eggs at all and they are a little teasy��

I would combine the two colonies for the time being - must be sure there is no queen in the 'queenless' hive.

It's still early for open mating to be certain but if you combine them now - the additional strength in the colony will make for a strong hive. You can then clean the mouse damage up in the empty hive and in a few weeks you have lots of options:

1. Demaree with your spare box and raise your own queen.
2. Take a Nuc off the colony and do a walk away split and raise your own queen,
3. Take a Nuc and buy in a queen - there's not many queens for sale at present but there will be plenty by end June/July and still time to raise a strong colony.
4. Take 2 Nucs off your strong colony so you have Three colonies for next year.

You could add a patch of eggs (not a frame) to the existing queenless colony if you think there is still a queen in there - if there isn't they should raise a queen cell or two but success depends on how many bees there are and their age - if the queen never got started this year they are going to be overwintered workers - not the best stock for raising a new queen and they are going to be pretty worn out and dying off - you could end up with a dead out.
 
A frame of brood will help tell you if there is a queen or not (and often a queen will be on a brood frame) and buys you some time - you might be able to obtain a queen from somewhere. You can always unite in a week or so in any case if you decide to.
 
My gut is saying unite, no eggs, no brood anywhere. Currently the Q- is larger than the positive one will have to read up on uniting, can't remember if it's queen on top or below🙄. They have been too well behaved for too long😁
 
Ok so I had mouse attack this year I only have two colonies both of which are only on about 4 frames due to mouse mischief. One has gone Q- since mouse other still has queen. I just don't know what's best to do. Unite the two, but then if something goes wrong I've no back up, but a Queen if there's any around yet? But is postage going to take too long? Or steal a frame from other colony and hope for the best?? Would appreciate bpeoples feedback.

You can arrange for them to be posted 'guaranteed next day delivery' if you can find a supplier.
 
Air freshener �� can tell I've been offline for a while, never heard of that��

I thought It was rather a futile thing to do but it works.
When uniting two boxes you spray up into the q- hive and then a quick spray in the bottom box then unite.
I've not had any problems yet...it works well and you can go back in and manipulate the frames sooner rather than waiting for them to chew through paper.

Theres quite a few on here that do it and even our secretary at the association suggested it.

I. Prefer glade air freshener vanilla
 
will have to read up on uniting, can't remember if it's queen on top or below🙄. They have been too well behaved for too long😁

It makes no difference whatsoever whether the queen is in the top or bottom box, in fact, if your book tells you it does, you've just found yourself a source of additional smoker fuel :D the important thing is that the box which will have to be moved goes on top - the act of uniting will then re calibrate the moved bees orientation to the new hive.
 
I thought It was rather a futile thing to do but it works.
When uniting two boxes you spray up into the q- hive and then a quick spray in the bottom box then unite.
I've not had any problems yet...it works well and you can go back in and manipulate the frames sooner rather than waiting for them to chew through paper.

Theres quite a few on here that do it and even our secretary at the association suggested it.

I. Prefer glade air freshener vanilla


Don't use too much though as I found it drives the bees up and over the top of the hive to hang out on the outside until the pong goes away........
Another Poot cock up last year and another lesson learned.
It did succeed though.
 
Don't use too much though as I found it drives the bees up and over the top of the hive to hang out on the outside until the pong goes away........
Another Poot cock up last year and another lesson learned.
It did succeed though.

I agree, you don't need to use much or even really spray all over the frames.
It should take seconds.

Will you use it again?
 
Thanks will see if I can find a few eggs to shift, just to check, but really don't have a lot yet and would have thought I should have had some on the neg hive by now if there was a queen. Then unite I think. Not sure I have air freshener though but will dig around, news paper if not
 
Ok so definitely q-, next numpty question I'm presuming this is a night time, early morning job before bees flying, just mulling over the juggle
 
Ok so definitely q-, next numpty question I'm presuming this is a night time, early morning job before bees flying, just mulling over the juggle


Doesn't really make any difference - I would not do it at night though they will be all over you in no time... I usually combine in the afternoon ... no so many bees in the hives ...
 
Doesn't really make any difference - I would not do it at night though they will be all over you in no time... I usually combine in the afternoon ... no so many bees in the hives ...
If uniting in the afternoon when foraging bees are out flying, won't they return to the site of the, now united, hive, only to find an empty space, assuming the other hive was a distance away?
 
If practical when uniting I move the hive three feet at a time towards the other hive, so that just before uniting they are virtually side by side.
If you cannot do that then the stray returning foragers will beg their way into neighbouring hives
 

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