Un-Certan B401

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Beefriendly

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Adendum....That title should read uncertain about DIPEL DF, Not certan which is currently unavailable.

Took all my frames out of the shed they have been stored in all winter. Secured top and bottom with ratchet straps. All frames had been treated with double strength Dipel and allowed to dry before storage.
Very disappointed to find numerous examples of wax moth damage to many brood frames. See pictures below, reckon about 80 out of 200+ brood frames are showing damage, some minor some more serious.
Interestingly all my super frames that I allow the bees to clear out and dry before storage (which were also treated with dipel) are all totally untouched. But then they always are even if untreated....

So I am now very uncertain about Dipel DF being of much use for wax moth control....
 

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On the topic I went into thornes the other day and the new certan is still not available.
 
Ahhh BF I looked at my stored frames the other day and saw a few like that. I thought it was pollen going mouldy. They had been sprayed with Dipel. I sprayed more on while I was at it.

Might have to have another closer look. I'll be gutted as I have, like many here, bought a tub big enough to last the forum a decade. Was pretty sure it was all sealed too.
 
Might have to have another closer look. I'll be gutted as I have, like many here, bought a tub big enough to last the forum a decade. Was pretty sure it was all sealed too.

Its the frazz that gives them away...like spiders webs. In 1st picture you can see where 2 larvae have tunneled through the comb.

I guess it's true, certan B401 was specifically specified for waxmoth whereas Dipel wasn't. It was fatsharks blog that convinced me to splash out £60 on the stuff. Guess the prof was wrong /wry grin/
 
So far so good with me .. checked my stored brood frames when I got home tonight - all those sprayed with Dipel are fine. I missed a couple I had left in a timber nuc and had forgpotten about and those two frames are riddled with tracks and webbing. Gone in the incinerator. I hate bloody wax moth.
 
Put them outside for a couple of nights to get frosted.
 
In previous years that is exactly what I have done with no issues other than mould forming on pollen frames. Someone (Dani??) said she never got mould on her pollen frames but stored them inside overwinter in her shed and someone mentioned that by overwintering in a warmer outbuilding you often got pollen mites eating all the pollen out of the frames. So for an experiment that is exactly what I did this winter, but used Dipel to combat any potential wax moth issue. And hoped that pollen mites would eat the pollen clogged frames.
Neither worked for me; pollen frames are all mouldy (not a pollen mite in sight) and wax moth tunnels on nearly half the brood frames.
I suspect the extra warmth in the shed allowed any wax moth larvae to survive and the dipel appears to have had no effect.
Back to storing outside next season....but still the issue with pollen clogged frames. Might try storing those indoors where it is much warmer and drier.
 
Mine are stored outside but under cover - having said that, we don't get that many frosts down here on the Costa del Fareham.
 
In previous years that is exactly what I have done with no issues other than mould forming on pollen frames. Someone (Dani??) said she never got mould on her pollen frames but stored them inside overwinter in her shed ......................


Neither worked for me; pollen frames are all mouldy (not a pollen mite in sight) and wax moth tunnels on nearly half the brood frames.

Haven't looked in the super frames yet but will post pictures when I do
 
My supers frames where all fine and stored away after the bees had cleaned and dried them. It's the Dipel treated drawn comb brood frames where the major damage is. The dipel treated pollen clogged brood frames have little wax moth damage but are mouldy.
 
My supers frames where all fine and stored away after the bees had cleaned and dried them. It's the Dipel treated drawn comb brood frames where the major damage is. The dipel treated pollen clogged brood frames have little wax moth damage but are mouldy.

Ahhhh
My brood frames live in the freezer
 
I don't think I can afford a big enough freezer.....Although I might have to consider it, particularly for the pollen clogged brood frames...they are worth their weight in gold at this time of year.
 
I don't think I can afford a big enough freezer.....Although I might have to consider it, particularly for the pollen clogged brood frames...they are worth their weight in gold at this time of year.

I think freezers are out of stock, all bought by food stockpilers to keep their hoard.
 
You’re not kidding. I thought I’d have a look and 4 big names I just looked at were all out!

I’ve heard of people keeping toilet roll in the fridge but freezers is step too far!!!
 
I solve my problems with pollen clogged frames by getting the vast majority back on hives. I simply reserve after extraction and use them to expand late nucs. Simply add a couple to the outside of brood area on a good nuc and 1 into the centre of the nest, small jar of feed and you force the queen to lay up at least the central frame. Done right you take a nuc up to a full size box for wintering.
 
Here are a few pictures of frames that were treated with double strength Dipel and stored in my shed over winter.
Doubt I shall ever use it again.
 

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Here are a few pictures of frames that were treated with double strength Dipel and stored in my shed over winter.
Doubt I shall ever use it again.

Oh dear .. they are completely wasted, annoying. Were they stored in sealed containers or open stored in the shed ? My spare brood frames are stored in strapped and sealed poly brood boxes out in the open but under cover. It's vital I don't get wax moth as they will destroy the poly boxes as well given half a chance. I will worry about Dipel in the future unless others who have used it have managed to stay moth free.

Anyone else found a problem with Dipel yet ?
 
G'day Beefriendly,
I was wondering if you know whether the moths are laying eggs in the brood wax after you store them or before you store them?

edit: I see Pargyle beat me to the same/similar question!
 
There is no doubt some will have used Dipel and not had wax moth. Doesn't mean it was the dipel that prevented the wax moth. In my case it was double strength Dipel, dried stacked and ratcheted in an outbuilding. I'm presuming the eggs were laid during the drying part. Last year I did exactly the same but used Certan B401, no problems at all.
I'll return to simply storing them outdoors overwinter where I don't get any problems with wax moth and use the Dipel on my cabbages.

Dipel is supposed to kill the early larval stages, it obviously doesn't for wax moth. Of all the species it is supposed to kill, Wax moth is not among the list. Whereas Certan was specifically for wax moth and was spores from a different bacteria.
 
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