Two queens heading a cast

[Beeforest]

Ran a small cast into a hive last night. I was surprised to see two virgin queens making their way to the entrance, one at the front and one at the back. Is this a common occurrence to have two queens in a small cast such as this?
When would their battle likely to commence now or after the mating flights?

 

[oliver90owner]

Not too uncommon, I would think. Casts should be uncommon, after all? Multiple queens loose in a colony is not the norm for most beekeeping situations?

They will sort it out before their mating flights, that is a certainty. Think about it - would the remaining virgin not be more manoeverable than a well fed queen starting to lay? Would she not easily defeat the mated queen? Would that situation be a good one for the colony (another risk to survival if the second queen were not to get mated)? Would one queen leave the colony to go on a mating flight leaving behind a rival in the fortress? Answering questions like this might give you a fairly definitive answer to your question. Further brainstorming, for extra questions, might be a good exerciae for you.

 

[Beeforest]

Answering in a less patronising tone might be a good exercise for you.

 

[rook66]

Ran a small cast into a hive last night. I was surprised to see two virgin queens making their way to the entrance, one at the front and one at the back. Is this a common occurrence to have two queens in a small cast such as this?
When would their battle likely to commence now or after the mating flights?

This is the norm. I have found five queens in a cast. I think the bees have already made their selection before they leave the hive, and the rejects go along because their fate is doomed anyway. If you watch a hanging cast closely, you will see queens being ejected. If you try to introduce these rejected queens into a nuc they will not be accepted either.

 

[Beeforest]

Thanks rook66 so it would be expected that the queen first into the hive has already been selected by the colony.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Answering in a less patronising tone might be a good exercise for you.

That's 'educators' for you (got to be careful being a trainer meself!)

 

[oliver90owner]

Answering in a less patronising tone might be a good exercise for you.

Just thinking about the alternatives would be good for you.

I just gave you a few examples of reasoning that might have been appliccable to the situation. Maybe some don't want to learn how to to it themselves, but there will be some out there, reading that, who will see the light and think 'obvious really!!

Good day.

 

[mbc]

Thanks rook66 so it would be expected that the queen first into the hive has already been selected by the colony.

I always thought it was the respective queens who went head to head to gain supremacy, and the colony are largely passive observers.

 

[Luminos]

That's 'educators' for you (got to be careful being a trainer meself!)

There'll be two of you, then, JBM? A pair of trainers?

 

[mbc]

There'll be two of you, then, JBM? A pair of trainers?

Nike or Rebok ?

 

[nonstandard]

The video that someone posted the other day shows the beekeeper picking multiple queens from the surface of a skep full of cast swarms.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UA5pY8hOEj4#!

 

[Beeforest]

Answering in a less patronising tone might be a good exercise for you.

Just thinking about the alternatives would be good for you.

I just gave you a few examples of reasoning that might have been appliccable to the situation. Maybe some don't want to learn how to to it themselves, but there will be some out there, reading that, who will see the light and think 'obvious really!!

Good day.

 

[roche]

There was an interesting few posts a year or two back about colonies running with multiple queens. I haven't looked again for the thread, and I don't know that it went into much detail, but there were a few photos with both queens in the shot. Some beekeepers seem to run colonies in that manner - something I would like to know more about...

 

[mbc]

Does this meen you've seen the light and have a new beekeeping messiah ?

 

[Beeforest]

" He's not the Messiah; he's a very naughty boy"

Thanks for the link, very interesting and it seems not as unusual as I thought.

 

[keith pierce]

Here is a picture of a swarm that i ran up a board into the hive. They balled and killed 3 queens before they even got into the hive, while another one ran over their backs and straight into the hive.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

 

[Beeforest]

Great picture and good observation. Thanks for posting it. I will be certainly looking more closely at any more casts I run into hives in the future.

 

[Luminos]

Would the dead queens not be there on the sheet after the swarm has been hived?

 

[rook66]

I always thought it was the respective queens who went head to head to gain supremacy, and the colony are largely passive observers.

Not as straight forward as that, the sub caste's in a colony come into play, which goes back to the multiple mating of the queen, it also raises the question of natural selection and the criteria the bees use in selecting their next queen.

 

[nessieb]

I've just been trying to read up a bit to figure whats going on with my ladies as I hived a swarm yesterday which had at least two virgin queens in it (we saw one dead one). If you have ted hoopers book see pg 152 under "hiving a swarm" and there is one explanation there about casts being headed by several queens.
Still haven't figured out what my girls are up to though.