Treating bees

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Glad to hear that your losses are so minimal you can correctly identify what the cause was....are you 100% sure it was the Apiguard or trickling, I doubt that very much?
S

About as confidently as you glibly blame your losses on OAV

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

You didn't use the correct dosage.

He did - the producers of MAQS have made it known that the correct dosage for a National hive is one strip - the two strip dosage is for Dadant or similar. They cannot change the instructions as it would mean a costly relicencing of the product.

 

[Softley]

He did - the producers of MAQS have made it known that the correct dosage for a National hive is one strip - the two strip dosage is for Dadant or similar. They cannot change the instructions as it would mean a costly relicencing of the product.

Can you point to where that information is? I've clearly missed it.

 

[Swarm]

Surprised you haven't seen it mentioned here, a couple of years back.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Can you point to where that information is? I've clearly missed it.

I can't point to any written source but after I lost two queens with MAQS the year it was first licensed I made sure I talked to suppliers selling it at the shows. That is exactly what I was told. One strip for a National.
Still won't use it though.
Anecdotally there are beekeepers who have used it repeatedly and had no/few associated losses and those that have had losses they did associate with it's use. You pays your money and takes your choice

 

[Stiffy]

About as confidently as you glibly blame your losses on OAV[/QUOTE
Yep, winter has definitely started and the drivel and spillage is pouring out of Wales on cue!
Enjoy your world
S

 

[pargyle]

I can't point to any written source but after I lost two queens with MAQS the year it was first licensed I made sure I talked to suppliers selling it at the shows. That is exactly what I was told. One strip for a National.
Still won't use it though.
Anecdotally there are beekeepers who have used it repeatedly and had no/few associated losses and those that have had losses they did associate with it's use. You pays your money and takes your choice

https://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=31302&page=5

Post #41 Dan Basterfield I think from memory.

 

[Softley]

https://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=31302&page=5

Post #41 Dan Basterfield I think from memory.

Dan B says 2 strips on double brood Nationals. I said I only treat strong colonies with MAQS. I'm happy we're on the same page.

 

[pargyle]

Dan B says 2 strips on double brood Nationals. I said I only treat strong colonies with MAQS. I'm happy we're on the same page.

There were a lot of problems early on with MAQS when people in the UK were following the instructions for two strips but in single brood box nationals - coupled with closed floors and not taking account of weather conditions. They were suffering queen failures and queens going off lay for prolonged periods - there were also people reporting large numbers of dead bees. I think the failures were attributable to the excessive/concentrated amount of Formic acid vapour present as a result ...

I've never used it but there's enough evidence in trails left on the web to suggest that it's a product that needs using with care - I think Dan has covered most of the bases in his post - perhaps the only other thing to bear in mind is the weather - you don't want it to be too warm when they are used.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Can you point to where that information is? I've clearly missed it.

You would have. They made it known at the BBKA convention last year and it's been published (But not by the manufacturers) a few times since.
As I said they cannot change the instructions as they would have to re-licence.
My maths isn't that strong, but I calculate that two strips on a double brood national is roughly about the same as one strip on a single.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

About as confidently as you glibly blame your losses on OAV[/QUOTE
Yep, winter has definitely started and the drivel and spillage is pouring out of Wales on cue!
Enjoy your world
S

Looking back on this thread it looks like the drivel started well entrenched in your pompous little world.

 

[Softley]

There were a lot of problems early on with MAQS when people in the UK were following the instructions for two strips but in single brood box nationals - coupled with closed floors and not taking account of weather conditions. They were suffering queen failures and queens going off lay for prolonged periods - there were also people reporting large numbers of dead bees. I think the failures were attributable to the excessive/concentrated amount of Formic acid vapour present as a result ...

I've never used it but there's enough evidence in trails left on the web to suggest that it's a product that needs using with care - I think Dan has covered most of the bases in his post - perhaps the only other thing to bear in mind is the weather - you don't want it to be too warm when they are used.

I agree with all that but would add I have used two strips in single brood box nationals to no ill effect. However, those colonies have been strong and have always had supers on, so space to expand. The instructions say something like 'provide additional room if required' and 'provide adequate ventilation' both lines are open to interpretation and I can see where people go wrong.

I just find it a little frustrating that so many people dismiss MAQS, either because they've had bad experience with it or because they've read all the negative comments that people post about it.

 

[Finman]

Dan B says 2 strips on double brood Nationals. I said I only treat strong colonies with MAQS. I'm happy we're on the same page.

Scientic Beekeeper had tested MAQS, how to avoid Queen losses. He measured too, that too few formic acid in hive air gives weaker death rate in mites. He has hives in hot California.

 

[Eyeman]

I just find it a little frustrating that so many people dismiss MAQS, either because they've had bad experience with it or because they've read all the negative comments that people post about it.

A lot of us have moved on to OA vaping.
If I needed an urgent mite treatment when supers are on I would consider MAQS again for that colony. I'm just not going to use it again routinely on all my hives.

 

[Finman]

.
Urgent treatment works too with trickling. Make a artificial swarm. Then trickle it with oxalic acid after 2 days.

Put brood frames into an own hive, and treat separately. Before that take honey frames off and shake bees off. Do not treat the yield.

Treat brood frames separately like a nuc. Follow how much you have alive bees after 2 weeks.

 

[SDM]

I agree with all that but would add I have used two strips in single brood box nationals to no ill effect. However, those colonies have been strong and have always had supers on, so space to expand. The instructions say something like 'provide additional room if required' and 'provide adequate ventilation' both lines are open to interpretation and I can see where people go wrong.

I just find it a little frustrating that so many people dismiss MAQS, either because they've had bad experience with it or because they've read all the negative comments that people post about it.

My. Own bad experience of maqs was 3 out of 5 queens lost during treatment of double brood nationals on mesh floors in moderate conditions, all were 12-15 frames of bees at the time with first year queens ( 1 day of 22°c the rest 16-19°c). and you think I should have persevered with the product? I could have not treated at all and taken similar losses.
If you had "supers" on you did not use 2 strips on a single brood did you?
"Provide additional room" and "adequate ventilation" are not vague instructions, they're meaningless. Additional room could well mean, double the volume of your hive and adequate ventilation could mean anything from adequate to the colony under normal.circumstances to adequate to the needs of a 737 engine on take off.
This was a product approved for use in the UK that came with instructions "likely" to lead to high brood mortality and queen issues. There is no element of users " getting it wrong" when their was no right method to follow.

 

[SDM]

What if somebody opens your door and starts to vape you every time.
And every time you do not mind at all.

Such teaching....

I have to wonder if you've ever tried it , given that you stopped learning 30 yrs ago when you decided there was nothing left to learn. I mean why would you when you find trickling perfect?
About half of my colonies will show no audible response at all to vaping and those that do are usually disturbed by my preparation to vape rather than the acid itself. Those with mites then go on to show more of a response than others for sure, but the claim that vaping causes.little or no disturbance is not an unreasonable one.
You mention that your winter bees last 8 months , have you ever marked bees to test that, or opened hives through winter to see what brood is present throughout?
Studies that have tested it showed a total colony turnover of about 3 months. Even in your climate I find the idea of an 8 month broodless period doubtful, especially given your predilection for a race of bees that seem far less capable of producing the fat bodies required for winter longevity.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I just find it a little frustrating that so many people dismiss MAQS, either because they've had bad experience with it or because they've read all the negative comments that people post about it.

Why frustrated?
A lot of people won't use OAV for similar reasons

 

[enrico]

I have used double MAQS on double brood. Dead bees but no loss of queen or break in egg laying. I use single MAQS on single brood with very few losses and no losses of queen, however I have bought a vape kit for this year, trying to move with the times, not used it yet so......watch this space.
E

 

[Finman]

I have to wonder if you've ever tried it , given that you stopped learning 30 yrs ago when you decided there was nothing left to learn. I mean why would you when you find trickling perfect?
About half of my colonies will show no audible response at all to vaping and those that do are usually disturbed by my preparation to vape rather than the acid itself. Those with mites then go on to show more of a response than others for sure, but the claim that vaping causes.little or no disturbance is not an unreasonable one.
You mention that your winter bees last 8 months , have you ever marked bees to test that, or opened hives through winter to see what brood is present throughout?
Studies that have tested it showed a total colony turnover of about 3 months. Even in your climate I find the idea of an 8 month broodless period doubtful, especially given your predilection for a race of bees that seem far less capable of producing the fat bodies required for winter longevity.

I do not understand anything about your explanation.

I can see from your text, that you experience about bees is odd.

First you invent yourself, that I stopped learning 1987, and then you continue your intelligent story.

When you get average yield 100 kg/hive, let me know.

You have nothing to teach me about varroa. And that fat body story.
In Finland 90% of bees are Italian strains.
.