Treating a new swarm with Apiguard?

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Do224 

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I’ve been advised to treat my new swarm (caught on Sunday) with Apiguard by a local chap. He said to place a tray of Apiguard on the frames and ‘let them take the thymol down’.

Is this the correct thing to do? I’ve no idea if the colony has any varroa yet but he’s told me to put the Apiguard on ASAP.

8B1D287A-4DB4-4717-BC2B-B57FBCB10C1B.jpeg
 

Beebe 

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Somehow it's escalated to seven.
I’ve been advised to treat my new swarm (caught on Sunday) with Apiguard by a local chap. He said to place a tray of Apiguard on the frames and ‘let them take the thymol down’.

Is this the correct thing to do? I’ve no idea if the colony has any varroa yet but he’s told me to put the Apiguard on ASAP.

View attachment 26748
...not that one anyway, I hope...."EXP 07/2012"....generic image?
I wouldn't do that to them, especially if you don't know how affected or not they are by varroa. I suspect that most of those who post after this will all recommend, if anything, an oxalic acid vape; I would even hold fire on that. I would want my bees to get going and consolidate the colony to the hive with as little to interrupt their progress as possible.
 

jenkinsbrynmair 

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If you haven't got access to a varrox or sublimox, give them an Oxalic Acid trickle wilst there is no sealed brood.
I wouldn't recommend Apiguard at this time of year.
 

drdrday 

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The beauty of an OA vape or trickle on a new swarm is that you only have to treat (disturb) them once, and very briefly. You know that there is no capped brood in the hive yet, so there are only phoretic mites to be killed, and for that you only need a one-off treatment.
Something like Apiguard is slow release, a longer term treatment to kill off the phoretic mites, and then stay in place for several weeks to kill off any mites that are in capped cells throughout a couple of brood cycles. Fine for an established colony, but it's a whole lot of unnecessary treatment for a swarm that doesn't need it.
Personally I'd recommend getting the kit to do OA vapes as your main treatment for varroa going forward - it's cheap (once you've got the kit) and easy. A basic pan vaporiser can be bought for about £20 (although you'd need a battery too), or a GasVap and torch is only about £40.
If you don't want to buy anything yet though, as JBM says, just use an OA trickle instead.
 

Do224 

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If you haven't got access to a varrox or sublimox, give them an Oxalic Acid trickle wilst there is no sealed brood.
I wouldn't recommend Apiguard at this time of year.
Many thanks. I would have to order in the oxalic acid and dispenser so not sure if I’ll have missed my window by the time it arrives (swarm arrived on Sunday)? Looks like a litre of the acid is £37 from thrones with a use by date of Dec 2021....as I’ve only got one hive I expect most of it would go to waste? The dispenser is nice and cheap at £1.20 though! Is there a more efficient/cheaper way of doing it?
 

Do224 

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The beauty of an OA vape or trickle on a new swarm is that you only have to treat (disturb) them once, and very briefly. You know that there is no capped brood in the hive yet, so there are only phoretic mites to be killed, and for that you only need a one-off treatment.
Something like Apiguard is slow release, a longer term treatment to kill off the phoretic mites, and then stay in place for several weeks to kill off any mites that are in capped cells throughout a couple of brood cycles. Fine for an established colony, but it's a whole lot of unnecessary treatment for a swarm that doesn't need it.
Personally I'd recommend getting the kit to do OA vapes as your main treatment for varroa going forward - it's cheap (once you've got the kit) and easy. A basic pan vaporiser can be bought for about £20 (although you'd need a battery too), or a GasVap and torch is only about £40.
If you don't want to buy anything yet though, as JBM says, just use an OA trickle instead.
Thanks, I’ll get set up with a vape system for next time. Is the Apiguard option just a bit overkill or will it actually have a detrimental impact on my small colony (I saw bees on about 4 frames when I transferred them into the hive)
 

hemo 

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If using the apiguard the strong potency may cause them to abscond or they will beard out side of the hive with the current heat, try half a tray or buy some hive cleansing OA strips from Abelo. You have 9 days before brood is sealed.

A packet of apibioxal is < £10 from Simon the Beekeeper, mix it with some weak syrup and dribble with a syringe.
 

Apiarisnt 

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If using the apiguard the strong potency may cause them to abscond or they will beard out side of the hive with the current heat, try half a tray or better still buy some hive cleansing OA strips from Abelo. You have 9 days before brood is sealed.
I lost a newly hived swarm a year or two back by giving it a thymol based treatement . Lesson learned. Will not do that again
 

jenkinsbrynmair 

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Looks like a litre of the acid is £37 from thrones with a use by date of Dec 2021....as I’ve only got one hive I expect most of it would go to waste?
Try C Wynne Jones, or just buy a box of Apibioxial sachets and a syringe. the sachets won't go off until you mix it with water so they'll keep for years
 

Do224 

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If using the apiguard the strong potency may cause them to abscond or they will beard out side of the hive with the current heat, try half a tray or buy some hive cleansing OA strips from Abelo. You have 9 days before brood is sealed.

A packet of apibioxal is < £10 from Simon the Beekeeper, mix it with some weak syrup and dribble with a syringe.
Excellent, thanks very much. Presume this is the stuff you mean Api-Bioxal

Suppliers all seem to have a backlog of orders at the minute so I’ll chance a trip to a tiny local Beekeeping equipment shop in the morning (are they likely to have it?). If not I’ll order it from Simon the beekeeper and hope it comes in time. If it doesn’t come in time would you recommend not treating at all with anything (such as Apiguard) for the time being and wait until the autumn?
 

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I stick an Apivar in all swarms, personally. But then I don't have a sublimator.

I certainly wouldn't use a thymol based product with a newly caught swarm, for fear they would just leave.
 
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drdrday 

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Thanks, I’ll get set up with a vape system for next time. Is the Apiguard option just a bit overkill or will it actually have a detrimental impact on my small colony (I saw bees on about 4 frames when I transferred them into the hive)
You'll find if you have a good read around, that there are several varroa treatments that are thymol based (like Apiguard), or formic acid based (like MAQs). Basically the bees aren't too keen on these chemicals as they evaporate within the hive, so you get warnings about the bees bearding, or too much causing them to abscond, or queens being lost when MAQS is used etc. etc.

Of course there are cautionary tales about all treatments, but personally, as a beginner and the guardian of just one precious colony, I got scared off by the risk of my bees absconding or killing my queen. OA seemed the safer option as far as I was concerned.
But then you really need to read around yourself to make up your own mind about all of these treatments and choose the one or two that suit you best, that you're happy to subject the bees to.
 

Erichalfbee 

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I have an Abelo oxalic strip in the swarm I got on the 5th June.
 

Gilberdyke John 

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I’ve been advised to treat my new swarm (caught on Sunday) with Apiguard by a local chap. He said to place a tray of Apiguard on the frames and ‘let them take the thymol down’.

Is this the correct thing to do? I’ve no idea if the colony has any varroa yet but he’s told me to put the Apiguard on ASAP.

View attachment 26748
I sometimes wonder where some of the odd
I’ve been advised to treat my new swarm (caught on Sunday) with Apiguard by a local chap. He said to place a tray of Apiguard on the frames and ‘let them take the thymol down’.

Is this the correct thing to do? I’ve no idea if the colony has any varroa yet but he’s told me to put the Apiguard on ASAP.

View attachment 26748
Am I detecting the influence of a dinosaur beekeeper in your locality who is pouring drivel in your ear? 🤔
 

Do224 

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My local bee supplier spears to have gone out of business so looks like I’ll have to order online and hope there’s not too much of a delay in shipping.

The other option I came across was Apilife Var...any good in this situation?
 

drdrday 

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The active ingredient in Apilife Var is thymol, the same as Apiguard. Why not just try an OA strip from Abelo, like Dani suggested?
 

Do224 

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The active ingredient in Apilife Var is thymol, the same as Apiguard. Why not just try an OA strip from Abelo, like Dani suggested?
Ahh ok thanks, just trying to understand the different options.

Just ordered some abelo strips and also the API-Bioxal for dribbling so I should be all set. Hoping they arrive in time. Am I right in thinking the strips can go on any time but the dribbling can only be done before there is sealed brood?

I’ve seen it mentioned that you shouldn’t feed syrup at the same time as some treatments...will I have to consider this with the above two options?
 

jenkinsbrynmair 

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My local bee supplier spears to have gone out of business so looks like I’ll have to order online and hope there’s not too much of a delay in shipping.

The other option I came across was Apilife Var...any good in this situation?
alternatively, get on ebay now, you can get a small amount of OA for less than a tenner with free 3 day postage
then mix your own, I think the recipe is on C Wynne Jones' website still - if not, I have it
 

Swarm 

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Ahh ok thanks, just trying to understand the different options.

Just ordered some abelo strips and also the API-Bioxal for dribbling so I should be all set. Hoping they arrive in time. Am I right in thinking the strips can go on any time but the dribbling can only be done before there is sealed brood?

I’ve seen it mentioned that you shouldn’t feed syrup at the same time as some treatments...will I have to consider this with the above two options?
Be aware that the strips are not a recognised, licenced treatment for varroa, the same with OA crystals.
I would certainly put four of the strips in but I think I'd keep the apibioxal for later. The strips are effective, they were the only treatment my bees received last year.
 

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