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Too late to start apiguard?

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Oakbear 

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I've left things a bit late as i want my colony to rebuild after getting quite badly robbed by wasps (but they've been recovering pretty well).
As a result i've left varroa treatment out up to now as there was still a good supply of pollen and nectar coming in and didn't want to disrupt them.

But have i left it too late?

So do i have a crack with apiguard starting now or forget it and just do oxalic in midwinter?
Drop has been minimal, but i'm aware that isn't always a good guide.

I know apiguard needs a minimum of 15 degrees, but surely on top of the brood nest should be that until it gets really parky?
 

MuswellMetro 

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I've left things a bit late as i want my colony to rebuild after getting quite badly robbed by wasps (but they've been recovering pretty well).
As a result i've left varroa treatment out up to now as there was still a good supply of pollen and nectar coming in and didn't want to disrupt them.

But have i left it too late?

So do i have a crack with apiguard starting now or forget it and just do oxalic in midwinter?
Drop has been minimal, but i'm aware that isn't always a good guide.

I know apiguard needs a minimum of 15 degrees, but surely on top of the brood nest should be that until it gets really parky?

50mm of insulation above the crown board will keep the ambient temp higher, waht have you got to loose if it doesn't work
 

Oakbear 

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Thanks for the tip!
I was planning on insulating for winter anyway , so doing it early for the apiguard makes sense.

Out of interest does anyone know what the temperature range around the brood nest is?
I guess it must be relatively stable due to the internal heating being so good?
 

Oakbear 

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Thanks! Isn't that the nest temperature itself though?
I was thinking that with a core temperature of 35ish, surely 10 cm away is likely to be 15'C regardless of outside weather?

I think i'll definately have a go and see what happens with the Apiguard.

Has anyone else tried it this late or later before?
 

roche 

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I have used in October, and have had significant drop. Then re-treat with oxalic between Christmas and New Year.
 

Leigh 

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The idea with treating early is to give the colony enough time to breed bees without varroa induced diseases/viruses - these "healthy" bees will put the colony on a better footing to overwinter and build up well in spring.

Treating late may well knock down significant ammounts of varroa, but is unlikely to give the colony time to breed new healthy bees.

Late treatment is better than no treatment though. I'm late with mine - on 2nd treatment of home-made thymol treatment. It is a tricky balancing act to get honey off in time without missing out on a late flow AND to get the treatment on AND to feed....with more balancing to be done with the ivy flow....but thats a whole new question!

Like many others this year, I've seen little evidence of varroa through the season, but once treatment is on, it starts raining bugs. They seem to have learned to grip better!
 

oliver90owner 

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surely 10 cm away is likely to be 15'C regardless of outside weather?

And if the outside temperature were 40 degrees C? I am afraid your assumption does not hold true.

Regards, RAB
 

Oakbear 

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Thankyou helpful people!

I have a better grasp of why i reaaly should have treated early now, but will give it a go anyway, and make sure i'm early next year!

surely 10 cm away is likely to be 15'C regardless of outside weather?

And if the outside temperature were 40 degrees C? I am afraid your assumption does not hold true.

Regards, RAB
I'm not sure the intent of your post.
I clearly meant given minimum temperature given a usual outside temperature at this time of year.
Apologies if this was in fact not clear enough, but my intent was to ask a simple question in a conversational style, rather than phrase an outline for a scientific study.
 

margob99 

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Don't know about where you are in Notts, but down south here in London temperature is expected to go up a bit this week, so it's not too late. I've treated in late October with no adverse reaction.
 

Skyhook 

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Thanks! Isn't that the nest temperature itself though?
I was thinking that with a core temperature of 35ish, surely 10 cm away is likely to be 15'C regardless of outside weather?

I think i'll definately have a go and see what happens with the Apiguard.

Has anyone else tried it this late or later before?
That's where the insulation can make all the difference- and with the apiguard sitting on the brood frames it should be less distance than that from the brood.

Incidentally, mine are now into week 5 and still dropping 80/day, so it's still working at the moment.
 

kazmcc 

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We started treating last Thursday. Our mentor has put an email out ( he mentors a few Manchester projects ) telling us all this is as late as we can leave it in Manchester. I've not seen any clustering outside the hive yet. I assume it isn't a definite that they will do that, although the weather is expected to get a bit warmer this week, so I will be interested to see if any of the reported behaviour happens when the outside temp is higher.....watch this space.
 

Oakbear 

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Cheers for the replies.

Good to know i shouldn't be too late after all. (Hoping for nice weather!)

Should be sorted in the next couple of days, as soon as muy order comes through....
 

Eyeman 

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telling us all this is as late as we can leave it in Manchester.
As the effectiveness of treatment is temperature dependent, which is governed by the weather then the timing of treatment is often based on:
Do I play safe and treat in August or should I take a risk and try and get a bit more of that Balsam honey and delay treatment till September/ October.
It's us who have the Balsam honey who often gamble and delay Apiguard treatment.
 

kazmcc 

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The balsam we had ( tons of it ) got destroyed by the river swelling after the recent rain. I am learning in a bit of a back to front kind of way. We are being walked through our first year with a colony, but we are very lucky with our mentor....I'm not sure I'd cope if he just abandoned us :willy_nilly: I suppose if they were my bees or I was making the decisions, I might have treated a little earlier, but what our mentor says goes at this point. He knows a heck of a lot more about this than I do ( but I am gaining on him lol :p )
 

TBRNoTB 

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Thankyou helpful people!





Apologies if this was in fact not clear enough, but my intent was to ask a simple question in a conversational style, rather than phrase an outline for a scientific study.
Welcome to the club!:iagree:
Best regards
TBRNoTB
 

VEG 

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Started my treatment last sunday I always leave it this late as we have stacks of balsam around and they are still bringing it in.
 

oliver90owner 

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I'm not sure the intent of your post.

The intent was simply to point out that your bland assumption was incorrect.

If, now, I understand you to have meant a minimum of 15, that is considerably different to what you actually wrote in your post. Your conversational style may not hold up for those that are not aware of your particular loose 'style'. There are many out there who might take your assumption to be correct and be led down, or up, a garden path, conversational style here, of course.

RAB
 

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